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Hybrid Cars

Your favorite hybrid available in India?  

  1. 1. Your favorite hybrid available in India?

    • Maini Reva
      1
    • Honda Civic Hybrid
      13
    • Toyota Prius
      8


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At the current state of affairs unless there are other reasons (like 0 road tax and free City of London entry) a hybrid or a pure electric car does not make economic sense. Remember in a few years the battery pack will have to be replaced!

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I like futuristic interiors of Toyota Prius.The problem with anything electric in a large country like USA is the distances cost to time saved- Thats why the concept of fast TGV like  trains never caught on in America. 

Everything electric looks cool and good only small countries because it is more economical to travel to London from Paris in Train than Plane as the net advantage of using a plane is NIL.

Also it is easy to set up charging points every few kilometers in a small country like UK or Europe.But it is very difficult to set up charging points in USA/ India in middle of nowhere.The resources doing that will be more than even putting a man on the moon and maintaining it will be like sending a man to mars  every year.

hybrid cars are only a stop gap arrangement as the rare minerals used in it come from China and less said the better of this China

Hydrogen cars are way of the future but we require Either a JFK or a Henry Ford to do it - which is unlikely for a century

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Hydrogen cars are way of the future but we require Either a JFK or a Henry Ford to do it - which is unlikely for a century

You may like to refer to the discussions in the ancient threads of Hybrids, Hydrogen 7 etc.

I used to work in Hydrogen storage in the early 1980's. it was often said that the Hydrogen Economy is 'round the corner'. It still is! There is no known economically way of producing Hydrogen economically.

Incidentally, fusion may also prove to be a tough one. The reason is that at present there is no known material for the containment vessel, which will last for even three months, in the high radiation environment surrounding the plasma.

I am afraid that Fusion may also turn out to be a red herring. The reason - there is no known material which can make the vessel for Plasma Containment, and will last even six months.

The nearest I have seen are Alcohol-Fuel Cell buses in Reykjavik.

The best answer we get is that once the rest is done it will happen. Also, of the two available routes electrolysis and coal cracking the former seems to be preferred. In India we just do not have enough electricity which is an additional problem.

sgiitk2011-01-24 06:07:42

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@sgtiik

what are your take on new newer biological production and biocataylsed electrolysis? they are enviornmental friendly.

 

Recently there are voices of concern that hydrogen fuel will create all together a new problem of unscheduled rainfall because of high emission of water-vapour

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@sarabjeet: Sorry for the system playing the devil and mixing up my post.

The basic issue in any electrolysis set up is the voltage of the cell (i.e. drop between the anode and cathode for the reaction to proceed). This is a loss, and only results in heat. Thus if you pass 1A through a 1V barrier you are looking at 1W.  It is possible that bio-catalysis will reduce this voltage.

The rain thing is a red herring. See most of the HC burn also produced good old H2O.

One other thing which I have not mentioned here is the low volumetric efficiency of Hydrogen IC engines. For every molecule of Hydrogen you burn you will need 1/2 molecule of Oxygen. With 20% Oxygen in air you are looking at about a fuel to air ratio of ~3! With fuel it is about 14. So the output will be about a quarter. Way out - direct injection (preferably of liquid or super-cold) of Hydrogen. The real way me be Fuel cells - more efficient, compact, etc. This is what made me take note of the Reykjavik trials.

sgiitk2011-01-24 09:08:35

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@sgiitk

Yes hydrogen is possibly the least efficient fuel, the only reason it is still alive is because of h20 emittions.

 

There was this scientest who had suggested to use H2O2 with aluminum as fuel. H2O2 is already used as high performance fuel. But the thing is Aluminum would make the fuel expensive, but this plan was worth a shot.

 

There was lots of research going in on OxyHydro fuels, don't hear about them anymore.

Fuel cells powered by? At present form aren't they expensive ?

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Fuel cells used in Reykjavik (see my posts) are with Alcohol. It must be first cracked to Hydrogen and then fed into the cell.

oh i get it.

One more query, turbine engines are more fuel efficient, then why aren't they incorporated into commercial manufacturing ? Turbine+electric motors make a great combination

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One more query' date=' turbine engines are more fuel efficient, then why aren't they incorporated into commercial manufacturing ? Turbine+electric motors make a great combination

[/quote']

Turbines have a MASSIVE turbo-lag so are best suited for hybrid type apps. Turbine engines also have at least 3x (I guess 2x plus on Wankels!) on IC engines in terms of power to weight ratio. By the way the Jag twin turbine is just a concept apparently hollow inside at the moment.

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Turbines have a MASSIVE turbo-lag so are best suited for hybrid type apps. Turbine engines also have at least 3x (I guess 2x plus on Wankels!) on IC engines in terms of power to weight ratio. By the way the Jag twin turbine is just a concept apparently hollow inside at the moment.

Yes and Jag's have decided to use the turbine just to charge the 4 Lithium batteries and giving the option to use the turbine to power the car when needed.

But can the irritating sound of turbine be suppressed ? or will it be another Y2k

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My point was Technologies can be developed within decades even for Nuclear Fusion but the Political , Scientific will is lacking. Take the example of Nuclear Bomb it was way back in 1915 - a bomb of this nature was proposed by leading Science fiction writers of the day but It took a World War 2 , Albert Eisenstein , German fear and President Roosevelt  and not to mention huge resources of USA to develop it.

Even so called jet engine concept was rejected by Royal Air force when it was proposed  by Frank whittle and when he was given go ahead there was numerous problems but today  his perseverance has paid  in form of jet travel.

The materials required to develop jet engine were very revolutionary

See I am no Physicist but one thing I can say no technology is difficult to develop but we the people for last 30 years, want to take easy route , want super comfortable life , don't want to work hard or  devote life to develop new scientific propulsion systems, technologies and want to develop everything around some 40 year old tech developed by NASA or 100 year old ICE , electric tech - Have  people simply run out of ideas? just as cosmologist have run out of explanation!

Though I agree( Can't dispute him  either since I am no expert on that

field) with sgiitk statements about hydrogen , Fuel cells fusion but my point is  that Hybrids, reducing number of cars , encouraging Public Transport are just desperation - there is paucity of technology, over population ,  which people don't want to accept.

Mr. Spock2011-01-25 07:33:17

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I happen to by a Physicist, and did my PhD fooling around nuclear reactors and then spent a decade on Hydrogen energy, before abandoning it.

Regarding fusion I say that ITER may achieve ignition. But what next - where do we contain the plasma. We did some work on possible containment materials in the early 1990's, found nothing will work, and have kept an eye every since. There are trillions of dollars of funding riding on fusion, and only recently have I seen someone raising the containment vessel issue for the first time.

As for the turbo whine, since this is a high frequency noise (speed `80,000rpm) it is relatively easy to damp/mask.

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@sgiitk - On a lighter note I know you are a physicist who did not have a Neils Bohr to solve your biggest Physics Dilemma smiley36.gif other wise who knows you might have been  the next Werner Heisenberg developing a joint theory called qauntam of Solace

Anyways back to topic - what is the way forward do you think ? Is biogas a credible alternative developed from waste or recycle of plastic to produce petrol.

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Is biogas a credible alternative developed from waste or recycle of plastic to produce petrol.

Biogas from waste should be on.

Recycling of plastic certainly looks attractive, but why only for biogas.

Remember, to convert a higher hydrocarbon to a lighter one will invariably involve the addition of (our old friend) Hydrogen. I know plastic is being converted to wax, using a catalytic reaction. The process is under commercialization.

I am very cynical of the tall claims made by the enthusiasts. Sometimes I feel that Ramar Pillai was more credible!

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