sudeepd

Indigo Problems. HELP!!!

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So friends,

           Here is the update on our Indigo XL's Coolant Spillage Problem.

On Monday (16th) morning, I took the car to Chavan Motors Pvt Ltd., Solapur (TASC).

        The CRM (Customer Relation Manager), Mr. Kishor Bidri told the mechanic to replace the Radiator and Thermostat Valve, both with NEW ONES.

 After replacing them, we filled water and drove on highway for around 15-16 kms. (obviously at speeds in excess of 90-100kph since the temp gauge falls to C after driving at these speeds). Mr. Bidri drove the car and I sat on the Co-Driver Seat.

  And what a surprise, the temp gauge remained at Half Mark.smiley1.gif. It did not fall to "C" like before.

Then we came back and allowed the car to cool down.

The day ends so I leave the car at the workshop.Period.

On Tuesday (17th)

I came at 10:10am to the TASC.

Then we cleaned the OLD Radiator by water pressure.

Then removed the New Radiator and fitted the OLD one back  but did not remove the New Thermostat fitted to the car and test drove the car for 10-15 kms. This time also Mr. Bidri drove the car and I sat on Co-Driver's Seat.

 Again what a surprise, the temp gauge still was on Half Mark and refused to come down to "C" smiley4.gif (unlike before replacing the Radiator and Thermostat smiley6.gif).

Then to find whether Really it is the Thermostat which was culprit, we cooled down the car and removed the New Thermostat and fitted back OLD one. Again we test drove the car. But this time I drove it and Mr. Bidri asked the supervisor Mr. Sunil to go out with me and check whether the gauge falls down to "C" or not (he was not able to come due to some people came to meet him).

 But this time the guage fell down to "C". And we did not try to drive the car at speeds of 90-100kph this time since falling of the temp gauge indicates that the Radiator fan would not turn On and the coolant spillage would definitely occur if driven continuously at high speeds.

So we replaced back the Thermostat with new one.

Now the car is fitted with OLD Radiator and New Thermostat.

This Friday my Dad is going to Mumbai (from hometown Solapur), a distance of more than 400kms.

So lets see whether this time the temp gauge falls to "C" or not.

IMO the gauge would not fall down and behave normally (remain at Half Mark on highways like cities).

CHEERS Till Now.smiley31.gif

Thanks Manish (Sarser) for helping out.

Bye guys and take care till my next update.

@dtandon

     You said this is DEFINITELY BLOWN HEAD GASKET Problem.

     But I am Sorry to say you were wrong. This did not turn out to be Head Gasket but Faulty Thermostat Valve.

I will update further.       

sudeepd2009-03-18 15:15:17

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Great that your problem has been solved. Didn't you mention in one of your earlier posts that you'd already tried driving without the thermostat in place!

That should have caught the thermostat issue.

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@DT

       Earlier we tried removing the Thermostat Valve and used the car. But same coolant spillage problem occurred on Highways Only.

That means if you fit Thermostat (OLD ONE) or remove it, the behaviour was same on highways (coolant spillage).

So could not figure out Thermostat to be faulty.

Period.

My Dad is not going to take the car to Mumbai unlike I mentioned in earlier post.

So I will have to find an opportunity to take on highways for a long drive.

Period.

Manish,

           Now that it has been figured out that Thermostat to be culprit, can I get it replaced under warranty because the problem occurred since the car was in warranty (from Sep-Oct 08). The warranty expired on 2nd Nov 08.

      I have not talked to Mr. Sugaleelar (Customer Support Manager), Pune about this warranty claim since Mr. Kishor Bidri (CRM, Chavan Motors Pvt Ltd, Solapur) advised me to use the car and when I will be fully satisfied then we will talk to Mr. Sugaleelar and ask him about warranty claim.

The cost of Thermostat is Rs.650/-.

 The question is not about Rs.650/-, but as the problem persists since the car was in warranty, TML should replace it under warranty.

What do you say Manish?

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Great. You are unhappy with dtandon who was doing his best (as we all were) from remote. How about my suspecting the thermostat quite early in your stage. You obviously did not believe me.

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Please provide your reasoning if you think that the following is wrong -

No thermostat = free flow of coolant

Every car savvy person that you speak to about an overheating problem will suggest driving with the thermostat removed (to rule out a thermostat issue).

Also - things like the thermostat, coolant pressure regulator valve, radiator fan sensor are the first things that are checked (they don't cost a bomb can even be replaced on mere suspicion alone)

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SG Sir, It was not that I did not believe you.

          When I posted the pics of thermostat, you observed them and posted following

The second picture shows the spindle quite a bit further back. This should indicate the valve opening properly.
on 10 Feb at 1:06pm.

Then on 17 Feb at 9:06am, you posted the following

So if I now understand your problem. Town behaviour is normal. On the highway even though the temperature indicates cold you are losing coolant.

The most likely cause - bad radiator cap.

 And I replied to this that Indica/Indigo does not have Radiator cap.

Today you posted

Great. You are unhappy with dtandon who was doing his best (as we all were) from remote. How about my suspecting the thermostat quite early in your stage. You obviously did not believe me.

I am not unhappy with you or DT. And your suspect was correct that Thermostat Valve was Faulty.

I Thank all the Members who tried their Best to help me out Directly or Indirectly.

      SG Sir and DT Please don't get angry if I thanked Manish alone.

       I forgot both of you in all these checks.

           I regret for this.

     SG Sir, The reason behind not replacing the Thermostat was that it was not available in Solapur (Thermostat of Normal TDi and DiCOR are different hence no TASC or After Market kept in Stock). Hence I could not replace it with new one in Feb.

     DT, you said

Every car savvy person that you speak to about an overheating problem will suggest driving with the thermostat removed (to rule out a thermostat issue).

Also - things like the thermostat, coolant pressure regulator valve, radiator fan sensor are the first things that are checked (they don't cost a bomb can even be replaced on mere suspicion alone)

But Mr. Nitin Patil, Works Manager, Sterling Motors, Solapur (our Dealer) told me it is Head Gasket Problem without even checking the Thermostat Valve or other things. He just wanted to take money out of us. He is one of the Dealers/ASCs who rob the Innocient People by telling Fairy Tales just like he told us.

SG Sir and DT I Once Again Regret if I directly or indirectly hurt both of you.

Thanks to all of you.

FuelRunGod2009-03-20 06:06:45

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No point in discussing what was or was not done over and over again. Your problem is solved - so enjoy your car.

And remember these points for future reference - you may need them if you ever have a similar issue with any of your cars.

Mods, please close this thread as Mr. Sudeep is satisfied that the problem has been resolved.

For the record -

There are two ways to deduce overheating to a thermostat problem - both are equally good.

i)Remove the thermostat - it was bad if the problem goes away when driving without the thermostat.

ii)Replace the thermostat - it was bad if the problem goes away after putting the new one.

You had mentioned that you tried driving the car without the thermostat (first method) and still had the problem. That was misleading.

Further debate = flogging a dead horse.

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That's right. You will agree sgiitk and dtandon were of great help to you in diagnosing the actual cause of the cooling problem. In fact, dtandon had similar problems on his Maruti 800 and his thread had a lot of good information.

 

Anyways, it's great to know that your problem has been solved. I'm closing this thread. You can PM me to re-open it in case the problem comes back.

 

Thread Closed.

 

FRG

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I want to discuss about another problem. This problem persists from a long time ago (may be since 1 year ago).

   The car gives jerks between 1500 and 1750rpm (as indicated by Tachometer) in all five gears.

 

If the car is kept between 1500 and 1750 rpm (the needle should be

between 1500-1750 rpm notch and the Accelerator Pedal should not be varied), the car gives jerks to and fro such that the

complete car moves to and fro. All the Occupants of the car move to and

fro if the rpm is kept between 1500-1750.

        I showed it to Chavan Motors but they are not able to understand the problem.

 The jerks are felt only between that notch (1500-1750rpm) and not in any other notch.

  I am not able to understand even if I don't vary the Accelerator position and keep the car between 1500 and 1750 rpm notch, why the car gives jerks?

It does not happen in any other rpm notch (except 1500-1750) even if acceleration is kept constant.

I don't think its fuel adulteration problem. If it was so, the jerks should have been felt in other rpm notch also.

The jerks are not felt if the rpm is kept between 1000-1250 or 1250-1500 or 1750-2000 or any other rpm notch above 2000 rpm. Its Only between 1500-1750 rpm.

I think the Turbocharger gets activated at 1800rpm (XL has VGT). But why are jerks present below this Turbo activation rpm?

Can any one help me in this matter?

DT, SG Sir, any comments on this?

sudeepd2009-03-21 13:30:44

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I get similar jerks around 1000rpm on part throttle, I've been lead to believe that it is a common phenomenon with Dicor engines. To go around it, I press the clutch and re-engage for the engine to get back its rythym.

 

FRG

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Yes Manish I agree with you somewhat.

     Today I took Test Drive of Indica DiCOR.

     As you feel the jerks in your Safari (DiCOR 3.0) at 1000rpm, I felt same in Indica DiCOR. That Indica also gives jerks between 1000-1250rpm notch.

       But why does XL give jerks between 1500-1750 rpm only?

 Does it have something to do with the Torque since the Max Torque is available between 1800-3000 rpm and 1800 rpm (starting of Torque) is near to 1500-1750 notch?

     Are the jerks because the Max. Torque is generated from 1800rpm which is near to 1500-1750 rpm?

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One more problem occurred.

Whenever the Steering is rotated (Left or Right), there is some noise (some what like if something is grinding) from the front end of the car may be from the Steering System or Shock Absorber.

     The noise comes irrespective of car moving or standstill.

  Means even if the car is standstill or in motion and the steering is rotated toward left or right, the noise comes.

 Can you please tell what is the cause of this?

 

I showed to TASC today. They told it is because of the struts are worn out.

He suggested me to get the struts greased and see if that solves the problem. If it does not then replace the Struts.

 

What do you guys advise?

 

Please answer this question at the earliest or else I will have to create a Separate New Topic (WHICH I DON'T WANT SINCE IT WILL INCREASE THE LOAD FOR MODS) for this problem.

 

SO PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION TO YOUR BEST OF KNOWLEDGE.

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sudeepd , Your car has too many problems  (just like my 3 month old sports cycle). So I insist u get in touch with helpline bcz after the warranty expires, though the problems stop you will have to bear all the expenses unless u are lucky to have your insurers reimburse the costs

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@anijog: I talk not of the steering column, but the power steering system. Turn the wheel to full lock and there will be a hissing noise. More so in some cars than others. The Safari hisses even if it isn't on full turn.

The Indicas/Indigos power steering system doesn't hiss but makes a grinding sort of noise when under pressure. Now we can't really tell if that is the case in Sudeep's car since I haven't heard it. But I'm just suggesting that it could be that as well. This from my experience with my own 2002 Indica petrol and also from the current Safari and the office Indica dicor.

 

FRG

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@FRG

          FOR INDIGO XL,

The grinding noise has recently emerged may be since around 500-1000kms.

 

As you asked, The noise does not come when the steering is at full lock but comes all the way to the lock then may it be left turn or right turn.

 To make it more clear, If the steering is rotated even by half a turn the noise comes. If it is rotated even a little bit, noise comes. Even on standstill the noise comes.

Period.

    FOR INDIGO LS,

As for Indigo LS problem (which I discussed in Noise comes while Rotating the Steering...
    http://www.autocarindia.com/new/autocar_forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4237),

 when the car rolls over speedbreakers or bumpy rough roads, the front suspension makes noise as if they are worn out. I had last replaced all the four shock absorber assemblies with new ones at around 85-90,000kms. Here the noise does not come when the steering is rotated but when the car goes over bumpy roads, only. Now the reading is 1,63,000+kms. Should I replace them with new ones or grease them?

 

BOTH CARS BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY.

Indigo XL's Steering makes noise when it rotated but does not make any noise when passing Bumpy Roads.

Indigo LS' Front Suspension make noise when passing Bumpy Roads but does not make any noise when the Steering is rotated.

 

PLEASE FRG, HELP ME OUT WITH BOTH CARS' PROBLEM.

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But for greasing, they should be dismantled and then greased and fitted back and then Wheel alignment should be done. Then to check of noise. If not satisfied, replace Struts, again Wheel Alignment.

 

Anyways,

FRG  I will try your advice.

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Your Indigo has covered significant mileage after the last suspension job, so another overhaul could be due. 1,63,000kms is a very big reading. Tell us how is the engine coping?

How much has the XL covered? Has it been through a suspension job earlier? Suspensions usually last 50,000-70,000kms depending on the car and the road conditions. It can also be less especially if you have been driving on bad roads and also fully loaded.

 

FRG
FuelRunGod2009-04-18 20:14:34

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Your Indigo has covered significant mileage after the last suspension job' date=' so another overhaul could be due. 1,63,000kms is a very big reading. Tell us how is the engine coping? [/quote']

The engine is still performing good. Nice FE of 30+kpl AC OFF if driven smoothly.Touchwood. Initial pick up is little low. But will get sorted this week. Top end is like it was when new.Touchwood.

How much has the XL covered?

It has covered 77' date='000kms

Has it been through a suspension job earlier?

No. not yet. Suspensions usually last 50,000-70,000kms depending on the car and the road conditions. It can also be less especially if you have been driving on bad roads and also fully loaded.

Yes both the cars are driven many a time on bad roads since driving on bad roads is part of our business (MSEDCL Substation Sites).

BTW tomorrow going for greasing of XL' Suspension and will report here the results.

For LS, will go on Thursday as tomorrow my mom needs a vehicle and Wednesday is holiday of TASC.
sudeepd2009-04-20 16:10:04

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