sudeepd

Lubricants Questionarie

Recommended Posts

Hi friends,
           This is questionarie about Lubricants.
          1. What is this JASO MA Specification? I know API =Its American Petroleum Institute.
   
          2. The Vehicle Manufacturers recommend "SO-AND-SO" Grade Oil for a Particular Vehicle Manufactured by them.
         What happens if that Grade Oil is not used due to non-availability of that Grade Oil in a Particular Area?Means if Grade Oil other than recommended is used what will happen?
Example= Bajaj Auto Ltd. Recommends "SAE 20W50 of API SG + JASO MA Grade or Superior" Engine Oil for their Pulsar Motorcyles.
          a. What will happen if "SAE 20W40 of API SF + JASO MA Grade" Oil is used instead of "SAE 20W50 of API SG + JASO MA Grade" Oil?
          b. What will happen if "SAE 20W40 of API SJ + JASO MA Grade" Oil is used instead of "SAE 20W50 of API SG + JASO MA Grade" Oil?
               The "SAE 20W40 of API SF +JASO MA Grade" is available in my city. Should I use it instead of the Recommended "SAE 20W50 of API SG +JASO MA" (The oil available in my city conforms API SG norms but not 20W50 Grade)?
          c. What will happen if "SAE 20W50 of API SJ" Oil (with no JASO MA specification) is used instead of "SAE 20W50 of API SG + JASO MA Grade" Oil (Shell Helix which has 20W50 SJ is available in my city)? but Shell Helix 20W50 is Petrol Car's Engine Oil, so it cannot suit Wet Clutch operation. Should I use Shell Helix in Pulsar 180 motorcyle?

           Same question but for cars=
               Tata Motors Ltd Recommend 80 Grade Gear Oil for Tata Indigo. What if 90 Grade Gear Oil is used in Gearbox Indigo?
    
          3. Bajaj Auto Ltd recommends 20W50 of API SG Grade Engine Oil for their Pulsar motorcycles. Is this recommendation applicable to ALL Pulsars sold all over India? If yes, then how will this oil (20W50) protect the engine when the Ambient Temperature is below 20 Deg. Celsius, say for 15Deg. Celsius? As the Oil is capable of protecting the engine when the Ambient Temp. is between 20-50Deg Cel., what will happen if the temp. is not in this 20-50 range.
             In Rajasthan, the temp. may rise above 50 Deg. Cel. Then this 20W50 will not protect the engine and may evaporate in the HEAT.
             In Jammu-Kashmir, the temp may fall below 5 Deg. Cel. Then this 20W50 will not protect the engine and may freeze in the COLD.
         WHAT TO DO UNER SUCH CONDITIONS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Multigrade oil is specified as <a>W<b> and API-S<x>.

 x- stands for quality. the newest API ratings are SL, SM and SN. SL is natural, SM-semi-synth ans SN-synth.

Teh older SF, SG etc have fallen into disuse. In general API SF onwards all oils were effectively similar. SG was supposed to be a a fuel saving oil, SM were synth specs and so on. As for oil change anything SF or above could be (in general) used for one year and 10,000km.Diesels have a Cx rating. In general most oils have both a petrol and diesel rating. Diesel oils have a higher detergent content since there is more sludge to be removed.

Now for aWb: W is winter grade.In multigrade oils you have the lower specification which specifies the viscocity of the cold oil. 20W stands for SAE20 Winter Grade. The higher figure specifies the viscocity of the hot oil  The aWb stands for an a Winter Grade oil whih does not get thinner than b when hot. SAE20W50 is SAE 20W (as described above) which goes no thinner than SAE50 when hot.

A low starting figure means the oil is thin, and id good for cold starting both in terms of viscosity and hence circulation. A high ending fugure menas that under load the oil film will not fail.

Thus 10W50 can always be used in place of 20W40, and so on. In other words the lower figure should be equal and can be lower, which the upper figure should be equal or higher.

When a student in the UK I found that he car would not crank with a 20W40 oil  in the morning. On the suggestion of a friend I switched to Esso Uniflo 5W40 (or was it 50) and everything was Ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Sudeepd. Here is my response

Gear Oil: As long you make sure it is EP (if specified) then it hardly matters. EP stands for Extreme Pressure which is necessary for 'helical' gears.

Engine Oil: If they say 20W50 then in Kashmir you should try to go down to 10W50 or 15W50 in the interest of easier starting. Remember the 10W or 20W is valid for a very short time, since the oil warms up quite rapidly.

Also, remember the oil gets to well above 100C when hot so the the ambient (40 or 55) does not matter that much. This is why they often state that for ambient above a certain figure SAE50 is recommended, while below that you can run SAE40. In general short stints with a thinner oil will not break the engine.

sgiitk2009-01-27 10:56:42

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir you did not specify "Why is this JASO MA Specification is necessary for Bikes".

Please explain.

I have no idea about the Japanese specs. I suspect they may be similar to American Petroleum Institute (API) specs. It is true that Bike engines are more stressed. My honest guess will be that you should be Ok with SM (and may be even SL). My favourite SM oil is Castrol Magnatec.

Just saw n teh web - one oil is rated API SJ or JASO MA You can see a comparison at http://www.infineum.com/information/api-passenger-sj-sl-2004.html

sgiitk2009-01-28 05:16:08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to know can "Normal 15W40" Diesel Engine Oil be used in Indigo LS (E-II) and Indigo XL Grand Dicor (E-III) or is it compulsory to use "Special 15W40 Turbo" Diesel Engine Oil in above mentioned cars?

           In other words, can I use any "15W40 Diesel Engine Oil" or will I have to use the Engine Oils which are specially made for Turbocharged Diesel Engines in our above specified both Indigos?

          What makes the "Specially made for Turbocharged Diesel Engine" Oils different from "Normal Diesel Engine" Oils?

      Are not ALL 15W40 Diesel Engines Oils same?

 Does use of "Normal 15W40 Diesel Engine Oil" NOT LUBRICATE & COOL the Turbocharger and use of "Specially Made For Turbocharged Diesel Engine" 15W40 Oil LUBRICATE & COOL the Turbocharger?

 I think both the Diesel Engine Oils (Normal and Specially Made For Turbocharged Diesel Engines) WILL LUBRICATE & COOL THE TURBOCHARGER of the Turbocharged Diesel Engines.

Any objection?

sudeepd2009-02-04 11:10:32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JASO stands for Japanese Automotive of oil standard and usually followed by Japanese auto oil manufacturers.

The Turbo specially requires specific oil meant for turbo systems since they operate at very high RPM @ 15000 hence they require oil which have higher metal bonding capacity to reduce frictional losses. hence a turbo engined car show use oils as specified by the car manual. DO NOT EXPERIMENT with grades of oil and ONLY STICK to recommended grade, if you don't you may end up screwing the engine performance. Higher the grade the more the viscocity and temperature and optimum operational points will increase. I had a very bad experience with PTFE treatment on my YAM RX100 then engine performance detoriated and the engine was never the same again.

A higher grade oil is used in lower temprature region while a lower grade oil is used in a higher temp region.

In case you are taking your car from Rajasthan to Leh in December and plan to do a lot of motoring in Leh you will have to change the oil!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These additive mfgrs sure take people for a ride, just because it is the most slippery substance plam it off to unsuspecting guys. This used to come in a small flat tin I don't remember the name it was quite prominently marketed in the media in the early nineties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is Common Belief that the Engine should be warmed up before draining the Old Oil.

What is the reason behind warming up? I have heard that Warming up makes the Oil flow fast while draining..i.e., the Oil Drains out much faster as compared to Cold Oil.

But here is my main question-

 When the Engine is Cold, the Complete Oil gets Collected in the Oil Sump (The Oil Pan). Won't that make Draining the Oil Completely since all the oil is the pan and not in any Engine Parts as compared to Warm Engine (In Warm Engine, the oil is circulated all around the Engine and all the oil is not completely Drained i case of Warm Engine)?

Please put light in this matter.

Sanjay Sir, Manish please do needful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not all the oil when cold is in the sump. A lot is in the oil pipe lines, in the oil circulation ducts and on the valves etc,

once you warm the engine and then drain oil after 10 mins you are sure to drain the complete oil as the viscocity reduces and it flows more easily

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends on who's doing the oil change - the mechanics are obviously in a hurry - so hot oil is better for an oil change by an impatient mechanic.

But - if you do your own oil change - nothing's better than a cold engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not all the oil when cold is in the sump. A lot is in the oil pipe lines' date=' in the oil circulation ducts and on the valves etc[/quote']

Sorry dear, but your logic is wrong.

How can a lot of oil be in oil pipe lines, in the oil circulation ducts and on the valves, etc?

Period.

As the Engine starts Cooling (after shutting off the engine), the oil starts getting to collect in the oil pan (where the Drain plug is fitted) at the bottom of the engine.

So after 2-3 hours of shutting off the engine, the oil gets collected in the oil pan. Then how can it be in pipe lines, valves, etc.

If it happens as you say, then why we have to idle for at least 30 seconds to allow the oil to circulate around the engine before riding/driving out the bike/car.

One more point,

if it happens as you say, then why most of the people recommend not to ride/drive fast when the engine is cold (there should not be any problem in riding/driving fast as soon as we start the engine if it happens as you say).

Have I made myself clear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What will happen if I use "SAE20W40 of API SL + JASO MA2 Grade" Engine Oil when the Bike Manufacturer Recommends "SAE20W50 of API SG + JASO MA Grade or Superior"?

Means Bajaj Auto Limited Recommends the following Engine Oil for Pulsar 180 DTS-i (LCD Speedometer)=>

"SAE 20W50 of API SG + JASO MA or Superior" .

  Can I use SAE 20W40 of API SL + JASO MA2 in it?

Will the Difference of SAE harm the bike despite the API is of higher grade (SL as compared to Co. Recommended "SG or Superior"?

What is the difference between

SAE 20W40 of API SL + JASO MA2

     AND

SAE 20W50 of API SL +JASO MA2?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As your bike manufacturer recommends an oil topping out at SAE50 I would not like to use SAE40 esp. in hot conditions! On the other hand if he also recommends SAE40 as an alternate then got for it. Remember I have pointed out repeatedly that the old SAE-SA to SJ or whatever have been replaced by SL, SM ans SN for natural, semi-synth ansd full synth respectively. SG was not a semi- or full synth so SL is perfectly Ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sudeep have you tried it? Cold oil will not drain cleanly it becomes more viscous so probably 5 to 10% of the oil in volume will still remain within the engine so you see lower the viscosity the better the draining. smiley12.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We all know Mobil is No.1 Oil Company in the World.

I am thinking of using Mobil Lubricants in our Indigo LS (E-II), Indigo XL (E-III) and Pulsar 180DTS-i (LCD).

Can EXPERTS Please tell me using the Mobil Lubricants increase the Drain Interval?

 Means if a Car Manufacturer recommends replacing Engine Oil every 10,000kms then after using Mobil Engine Oil, will the Drain Interval increase to 15,000-18,000kms or will I have to Replace the Engine Oil at 10,000kms only as specified by Vehicle Manufacturer.

Now Tata Motors Limited recommends Drain Interval of Engine Oil for

       Indigo LS TDi (May 2004 Euro-II) is 7,500kms

       Indigo XL DiCOR (May 2007 Euro-III) is 10,000kms.

   If I use Mobil Engine Oil in above cars, will the Drain Interval increase to 15,000-18,000kms KEEPING IN MIND OUR TRAFFIC AND HOT OPERATING CONDITIONS?

 Same for Gear Oil.

      In India Car Manufacturers recommend Replace Gear Oil at 20,000kms.

      If Mobil Gear Oil is used, will the Drain Interval increase to 25,000-30,000kms?

Also will the Drain Interval for Engine Oil of Pulsar 180 DTS-i increase from 5,000kms (Bajaj Auto Ltd Recommendation) to 8,000-10,000kms?

EDIT: Also Please tell me which Specification Oil should be used for

        E-II and E-III Diesel Cars.

           CF4 or CG4 or CH4?

Which is recommended by You Experts?

         As mentioned above we have Indigo LS TDi (E-II) and Indigo XL DiCOR(E-III). Which of the following Engine Oil should be used in them CF4, CG4, CH4?

EXPERTS PLEASE GUIDE ON THIS MATTER.

THANK YOU,

Sudeep.

sudeepd2009-03-29 07:23:05

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In our Indian tropical, dusty and polluted conditions, its not advisable to unilaterally extend the drain intervals.Our engines heat up more than others in the colder developed countries.Like when I was using jeeps in the rural areas the draining interval for the engine oil would be quicker and was almost done at half the normal intervals.

Its better to stick to the manufacturers recommendations rather than go by Mobil or any other company's recommendations, which are applicable to the western conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two points. Drain interval is brand independent. The quality of oil is more important.

1. During the warranty period you must stick to the recommended intervals.

2. If you are using a fully synthetic oil normally you can safely double the drain interval but keep in mind that it must be at least once a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Anjan

            Mobil does not recommend any drain interval on its "CAN". I just wanted to know if I use world class oil (Engine and Gear), can I increase the Drain Interval.

@Sanjay Sir,

          If Fully synthetic, then I can safely double the drain interval.

 What if Semi synthetic is used?

I have seen a man who did not replace the Gear Oil of his Tata Sumo for 1,60,000kms. And still there was no problem in his vehicle.

If a car can go for 1,60,000kms without Gear Oil Change, why do Manufacturers Recommend Gear Oil Replacement every 20,000kms?

Period.

Also you guys have not answered the below part=>

Also Please tell me which Specification Oil should be used for

        E-II and E-III Diesel Cars.

           CF4 or CG4 or CH4?

Which is recommended by You Experts?

        

As mentioned above we have Indigo LS TDi (E-II) and Indigo XL

DiCOR (E-III). Which of the following Engine Oil should be used in them

CF4, CG4, CH4?

sudeepd2009-03-30 07:38:50

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Sanjay Sir' date='

          If Fully synthetic, then I can safely double the drain interval.

 What if Semi synthetic is used?

[/quote']

It is difficult to say for semi-synths. Both my Santro and Accent do about 8000km a year and run on Semi-synths. I follow a once a year service regime. before the Accent I had an Esteem (carb). i die the same. sold it to a taxi operator at 63,000km. He ran it till well past 400,000km before selling it. He did not get the engine overlauled. I do advise that during the running in (say first 15,000km or so), do not use Synths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please answer below queries

I have seen a man who did not replace the Gear Oil of his Tata Sumo for

1,60,000kms. And still there was no problem in his vehicle.

If a car can go for 1,60,000kms without Gear Oil Change, why do Manufacturers Recommend Gear Oil Replacement every 20,000kms?

Period.

Also you guys have not answered the below part=>

Also Please tell me which Specification Oil should be used for

        E-II and E-III Diesel Cars.

           CF4 or CG4 or CH4?

Which is recommended by You Experts?

        

As mentioned above we have Indigo LS TDi (E-II) and Indigo XL

DiCOR (E-III). Which of the following Engine Oil should be used in them

CF4, CG4, CH4?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What ever you say I think sticking to mfgr recommended oils and drain interval will be safe.

Why are you looking to double the drain interval.

The drain interval recommended by TATA is specific for our conditions.

Please don't give examples of SUMO and Jeep operators, they have different commercial interest in mind.

You and I are private car owners interested in enjoying the drive with out the headaches of an badly maintained car, Even if it takes a little more money it should be the PEACE OF MIND!! Right!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now