sudeepd

"USELESS" Micro-Hybrid Technology of Mahindra..

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1. TURBOCHARGED ENGINES NEED TO RUN AT IDLE RPM FOR MINIMUM 30 SECONDS AFTER STARTING AND BEFORE STOPPING THE ENGINE.

2. Mahindra & Mahindra has introduced the SO-CALLED MICRO-HYBRID TECHNOLOGY in its Bolero and Scorpio.

The Micro-Hybrid Technology Shuts-Off the Engine if the Car is in Neutral Gear and Clutch not depressed for 10-15 seconds. smiley3.gif

3. That means the Statement No.1 is not Followed by the M&M Micro-Hybrid causing No Proper Lubrication to the Turbocharger.smiley18.gifsmiley7.gif

How FAIR is this Technology?   sudeepd2009-09-06 08:13:26

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Turbo charged engines require warming up time only when starting for the first time. After that there is no problem even if the engine is cut off and started immediately. However, in a country like India where air conditioning is required through out the year, I think the feature is pretty useless since the engine needs to be running for the AC to function properly.

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Its only 5 secs in bolero and 10 secs in scorpio they need to install an upgrade in the technique.

This proves that the Engine does not Idle for 30 seconds before stopping and after starting the engine.

M&M wants the owners of Boleros and Scorpios (which are equipped with Micro-Hybrid) to keep replacing the Turbochargers after every Finite Interval.

My Dad's friend owns an Indica Turbo which was used for Taxi Purpose. The Turbocharger packed up within 70' date='000kms. This was because the Chauffeur did not Care to Idle even for 5 seconds after Starting and before Stopping the Engine despite the Tata Motors Recommendation of Idling for 30 seconds After Starting and Before Stopping.

The Turbocharger of Indica Turbo costs around Rs.34,000/- (Thank God, its a Tata Product. If it was Skoda, that would have cost more than 1-1.5lakhs. Theres is one Person on this Forum who owns a Skoda Octavia whose Turbo Failed within 42,000kms).

Both of our Indigos are running fine. The Indigo LS (May 2004) crossed 1,70,XXX kms and still No Problem with the Turbo. The Indigo XL Grand DiCOR (May 2007) crossed 88,XXX kms and still No Problem with the Turbo. I, my brother, and the driver Idle for 30 seconds After Starting and Before Stopping the Engine. My Dad feels Waste of Time (not Fuel) to Idle for 30 seconds and hence he does not idle the car.

Turbo charged engines require warming up time only when starting for the first time. After that there is no problem even if the engine is cut off and started immediately.

Tata Motors Limited has Recommended that the Engine should be idled for 30 seconds Irrespective of the

   1. Engine Temperature and

   2. Time Interval between the Stopping the Engine and Again Starting the Engine.

This means even if shut off the Engine for 5-10 minutes, you should idle for 30 seconds after starting the Engine.

However' date=' in a country like India where air conditioning is required through out the year, I think the feature is pretty useless since the engine needs to be running for the AC to function properly.[/quote']

I missed the AC point while creating this topic. So if you want AC to be ON you have to keep pressing the Clutch which will eat the Latters Life.

sudeepd2009-09-06 09:02:08

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Its only 5 secs in bolero and 10 secs in scorpio they need to install an upgrade in the technique.

"This proves that the Engine does not Idle for 30 seconds before stopping and after starting the engine."

That does not prove anything my friend.

"M&M wants the owners of Boleros and Scorpios (which are equipped with Micro-Hybrid) to keep replacing the Turbochargers after every Finite Interval."

I am not sure if you should go around making such accusations so freely. Your data is not adequate.

sadsack2009-09-06 09:00:09

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I am unable to find the post of the Skoda Octavia's Turbocharger Failure. If someone come across it, please post the link of the same here for others (including me) reference.

Thanks.

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Its only 5 secs in bolero and 10 secs in scorpio they need to install an upgrade in the technique.
"This proves that the Engine does not Idle for 30 seconds before stopping and after starting the engine."
That does not prove anything my friend.
If the Engine turns off after 5-10 secs, this clearly indicates that the Turbocharger does not get Sufficient (30 sec) Lubrication Before Stopping and After Starting the Engine.

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Let me get some things Clarified here before we all start jumping on Mahindra. I waited to post my reply on this thread till I asked someone from Mahindra R&D

1: Does the Turbo need to Idle for 30 seconds before the car is shut:

Answer: Well, In today's day, when engine oil quality is drastically improved, it isnt really necessary to do it everytime. Though, its still an encouraged process.

2: In that case the Micro Hybrid tech shuts the car down, Does it affect the turbo?

Answer: The MH technology is just a solonide switch which cuts in if the engine is idling for more than some 20 seconds. So It doesnt really affect anything.

3: And what about when the engine is restarted?

Answer: As I mentioned, the quality of oil is such that it takes care of it.

The 20 second idle rule for turbos is still advised, but even if it isnt actually diligently followed, it is still ok.   

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Let me get some things Clarified here before we all start jumping on Mahindra. I waited to post my reply on this thread till I asked someone from Mahindra R&D

1: Does the Turbo need to Idle for 30 seconds before the car is shut:

Answer: Well' date=' In today's day, when engine oil quality is drastically improved, it isnt really necessary to do it everytime. Though, its still an encouraged process.

2: In that case the Micro Hybrid tech shuts the car down, Does it affect the turbo?

Answer: The MH technology is just a solonide switch which cuts in if the engine is idling for more than some 20 seconds. So It doesnt really affect anything.

3: And what about when the engine is restarted?

Answer: As I mentioned, the quality of oil is such that it takes care of it.

The 20 second idle rule for turbos is still advised, but even if it isnt actually diligently followed, it is still ok.   [/quote']

Thanks Cyrus for the clarification. So long as the clutch is engaged it does not go off right?

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Expecting any driver to sit there waiting for 30 seconds is todays day and age when all cars are equipped with all the modern technology is just preposterous. I wouldnt do it if i had such a car. Infact I wouldn't buy a car that required me to do that. Just my opinion.

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Expecting any?driver to sit there waiting for 30 seconds is todays day and age when all cars are equipped with all the modern technology is just preposterous. I wouldnt do it if i had such a car. Infact I wouldn't buy a car that required me to do that. Just my opinion.

I agree with you.

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Please go through my post which I posted 17 days ago--

My Dad's friend owns an Indica Turbo which was used for Taxi Purpose. The Turbocharger packed up within 70' date='000kms. This was because the Chauffeur did not Care to Idle even for 5 seconds after Starting and before Stopping the Engine despite the Tata Motors Recommendation of Idling for 30 seconds After Starting and Before Stopping.
The Turbocharger of Indica Turbo costs around Rs.34,000/- (Thank God, its a Tata Product. If it was Skoda, that would have cost more than 1-1.5lakhs. Theres is one Person on this Forum who owns a Skoda Octavia whose Turbo Failed within 42,000kms).

Also in MH if you want AC to remain ON you have to keep pressing the Clutch which will eat the Latters Life.
[/quote']

 

 

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I wouldnt do it if i had such a car. Infact I wouldn't buy a car that required me to do that.
In that case you will not be able to buy Modern Diesels and some of Turbo Petrols too.

 

Examples--

1. All Audi Diesels

2. All Bentleys

3. All BMW Diesels

4. Chevrolet Optra Magnum Diesel, Tavera, and Captiva

5. Fiat Palio Diesel (New), Punto Diesel and Linea Diesel,

6. Ford Fiesta Diesel, Endeavour, Fusion Diesel, Ikon Diesel (New)

7. Hyundai i20 Diesel, Getz Diesel, Verna Diesel, Sonata Embera Diesel, and Tucson.

8. International Cars & Motors Ltd Rhino

9. All Land Rover Diesels.

10. Mahindra Renault Logan Diesel.

11. All Mahindra Diesels.

12. All Maruti Suzuki Diesels.

13. All Mercedes-Benz Diesels.

14. Mitsubishi Pajero and Montero.

15. Nissan X-Trail.

16. All Skoda Diesels and TSI Petrols.

17. Tata Indica Turbo, Vista TDi, Vista Quadrajet, Sumo Grande, Sumo Victa Turbo, Safari, Xenon XT, and all Tata Indigo Diesels.

18. Toyota Innova Diesel, and Landcruiser.

19. All Volkswagen Diesels (and to be launched Polo 1.2 TSI and Diesel too)

20. All Volvo Diesels.

 

So Search for the Remaining Choices that are left for you.smiley36.gif

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@Sudeep, I have gone through what you wrote 18 days ago. And that is precisely why I asked someone in Mahindra to comment on it. In fact, The views on the last page come from the Head of R&D at M&M. Would you really want to argue with someone like that?

Also, As I have written very specifically, The modern oils that are available today take care of the whole Turbo Idle issue. I have seen and been in Scorpios which have covered more than 2lakh Kms a year (Test Mules) and there has never been a Turbo Failure in any of them.

In the case of the Tata or the Skoda Turbo failing, I am sure there is a secondary reason behind it.

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Just wanted to know what this micro hybrid thing does by switching off the engine when idle..........is it going to save fuel by any means or going to increase the engine life or if there is anything else ? what is the idea of spending much in the name of technology and achieving  little in efficiency, engine life or performance ?

I am technically not sound hence please clarify my doubts. Thanks. 

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I have seen and been in Scorpios which have covered more than 2lakh Kms a year (Test Mules) and there has never been a Turbo Failure in any of them.
Whats the Reason behind Tata and Maruti Suzuki Recommending to idle the engine for 30 seconds and 1 minute, respectively for their Indigo Diesels and Swift/Dzire Diesels?

I have seen the Owner's Manual of Dzire DDis. It also recommends to idle for 1 minute.

So why only Mahindra Diesels with MH dont need to idle?

Cyrus do you think M&M Diesels are so Technologically Advanced and Tata & Fiat Diesels lack in that area?

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Without beating around the bush -

Fact #1 - The Micro hybrid vehicles have warranties on them.

Fact #2 - No manufacturer wants to increase their warranty costs by releasing untested/failure prone technologies.

Put these two together and its common sense - Mahindra knows whats best for their vehicles. It would have released the MH (micro hybrid) versions after due and diligent R&D.

Differences between mahindra vehicles and products from other manufacturers is proprietary information and there's no point speculating or harping about it.

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