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Kappa(Hyundai) vs K (Maruti)-Engines/Cars

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Can anyone suggest me which car among hyundai i10magna with 1.2 kappa engine and  maruti swift with 1.2 kseries engine should I buy considering the parameters below:

 

cost vs amenities

 

mileage

 

comfort/luxury

 

technology

 

value for money

 

performance in long run

 

maintenance

 

 

 

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BornFree2011-02-13 15:34:29

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Maruti suzuki's K-series engines have simply blown away the market,something nearly same is with the Kappa from the house of Hyundai,but my question is that"What are the specs(I mean structure,design,compression ratio etc)for these engines"??

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Both of these are New Age engines built with Lighter & Better Construction materials. Also moving parts in them are Relatively lighter & lesser than that of previous Similar capacity engines.

So, Result being: Better Power figures alongwithwith better Fuel efficiency figures with Lesser Wear & Tear.

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@vipul - with respect to K series or Kappa is just an internal designation as G series used in esteem was named Altec by Maruti when it plonked into old Swift model - more of Gimmick nowadays.BTW F series engine are still used in Maruti Alto, Omni launched way back in late seventies.

But sometimes the designation do have meaning like HEMI engine from Chrysler which has hemispheric combustion chamber.

These engines have been designed and manufactured using latest techniques with Aim of good FE , drivability , responsiveness , low CO2 output , meeting emission norms.The K series is an all - alloy engine with Dual overhead camshaft which is leagues ahead of the G series engine used in EECO.

There are many things to an Engine design - the so called intricacy which a person with mechanical engineering Degree  can shed more light in the subject

Mr. Spock2011-02-13 18:32:17

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Undoubtedy the answer is Swift ZXi.

But I suggest you to Wait for All New Swift 2011, as probably It'll come with better Space, Performance & Insulation than Current one.

Rest, Who knows MSIL might plant VVT engine head in it which'll Improve its Driveabilty & might raise its Power upto around 90PS.

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@Friends:

Thanks a lot,but I'll be more happy if anyone would explain it to me in somewhat more detail....

As suggested my Mr-Spock:

WHERE ARE OUR SENIORS???????TSiVipul2011-02-14 03:46:09

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Kappa and K-Series engines are all aluminium DOHC engines . I'm not sure if they have direct injection ,if they don't they can't be called advanced.

All aluminium designs have been used in bigger i-4's,V6 and V8 for a long time. Its just time that tech trickles down to the lowest size.

But then the Japanese companies advertise every tech they have as if only their cars have. Toyota had its unintended acceleration problems due to unknown reasons the company is unwilling to disclose.It would have been prevented if they have drive by wire braking.In drive by wire braking, when the brake is pressed, the engine shuts out al power to the wheels. Invented by MB in 1995, GM,ford,hyundai,VW,BMW ,fiat ,nissan even chrysler used the drive by wire braking(Chrysler due to being part of Daimler Chrysler was among the first non-luxury makers to use them).The only exceptions were Toyota and Honda. Toyota suffered due to their lack of quality however Honda didn't. In the 2011 Chicago auto show they released an updated Toyota MAtrix (Corolla hatch) and in the list of features they mentioned smart stop. When it said found that was just a drive by wire brakes, I couldn't control my laugh. They advertise as if it was a tech invented by them . The competitors don't even advertised that (even MB in the beginning) since it was basic safety. What shewd yet useless marketing by Toyota , however the world knows Toyota's true face as builders of junk.

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The earlier irde engine of santro & G series of Swifts are gems. From a enthu's POV, the latest K or Kappa literally crawls on the road on comparison to the earlier counterparts. This should be the reason why Hyundai hurried and brought in the VTEC on Kappa so soon.

 

I don't know muc on the performance of Kappa VTEC, but the original Kappa or K series can't hold candle to the earlier engines. But still the new engines scores marginal FE increase, marginally lighter( in weight) and could be driven in higher gear in lower speed.

 

30 - 80 Kmph timings in the 3rd Gear

IRDE- 14.67 secs vs Kappa- 15.52 secs

40 - 100 Kmph timings in the 4th Gear
IRDE- 20.64 secs vs Kappa- 29.92 secs

 

FE

IRDE- 12 km/l vs Kappa- 11.7 km/l

 

*all figures are of i10. The VTEC variant should be better. 

From these figures I can say, these so called Kappa & K series are just Marketing gimmicks to an extend.

I am still a fan of Irde & G series. They both are peppy, loud and very rev happy.

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@Bala.IRDE and G-Series engines was not Euro-4 Engines and NVH was quite high in IRDE and G series engines compare to Kappa and K Series engines. I always feels that G series engine's throttle response is much better than K Series engines.Again we need more environment friendly engines in our cars.

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The manufacturers have to improve the engine technologies with time due to the tightening pollution norms as well due to market demands regarding NVH and performance.

Manufacturers are also trying to save each kilo on the automobile by through usage of special materials, through refinement of existing technologies etc.

Both Kappa and K-series are fully aluminum blocks in-order to reduce the weight.

As per my understanding, following are the notable advantages of the K-Series over the G-series from Suzuki:

1. Aluminum alloy construction.

2. High pressure injectors

3. Higher compression ratio to burn the fuel efficiently.

4. More advanced Engine management system.

5. Dedicated ignition coils for each cylinders.

6. Chain-driven valve train instead of belt-driven, to improve NVH and reduce maintenance

7. DOHC (Double Overhead Camshaft)

8. Throttle-by-wire (Instead of normal cable operated one.)

As per Suzuki's nomenclature goes,

K-series:  refers to the generation of small-size engines with Aluminum alloy construction.

M-series: Higher capacity (1500cc or higher) with usage of Iron for cylinder block, whereas many other parts are made of aluminum alloys itself.

carispassion2011-02-14 07:15:00

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The earlier irde engine of santro & G series of Swifts are gems. From a enthu's POV' date=' the latest K or Kappa literally crawls on the road on comparison to the earlier counterparts. This should be the reason why Hyundai hurried and brought in the VTEC on Kappa 2

I am still a fan of Irde & G series. They both are peppy, loud and very rev happy.

[/quote']

I beg to disagree with you on this issue Bala( Your not creative enough! Pun intendedsmiley36.gif).Its like comparing a Dinosaur with an Elephant

If I go by your argument then the best engine would be carburetor engine not MPFI.

The thing is G series is a good engine , rev friendly , good top whack  but undrivable in crawling traffic where it most counts.Also G series is a Three decade design pales in compares to non VTEC  Honda engine of same decade.The thing is Euro 4 norms , Govt. meddling and FE norms have severely dealted blow to performance thats why K series engines or Kappa engines cannot be compared to a G series engine.Same is case with ANHC which can't hold candle to OHC VTEC inspite both having VTEC engine , nearly 12 BHP more than OHC VTEC- but nobody wants to criticize it because its Honda.

If you want a hot hatch then forget it here.I can't find any place in Delhi not NCR to stretch my engine to redlining thats irony of powerful engines in India

@carpassion - there is 1.6 K series engine and 1.3 M series engine , so your explanation isn't correct

Mr. Spock2011-02-14 07:46:58

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@Parijat:-I back Doctor. Swift is always a better choice as it is most desirable hatch back in India.In my opinion i10 is known for its ease of city driving.In all other parameters Swift rocks above all other hatch backs.

Wait upto May 2011. Swift is coming with better looks,longer wheel base, better interior space,Better Shock abs to improve ride quality and stability.According to Maruti insiders the new swift also coming with K series engine which powers existing swift (1197cc 85PS,11.5Kg-M).May be later on they will introduce sports version swift with 93 BHP engine(1242cc,12.02 Kg-M).

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I totally agree with all your guys views. I have already mentioned "From a enthu's POV". Hyundai has taken this issue seriously and came out with its VTEC in no time. I wish Suzuki also follows suit soon.

 

Lets take this in a healthier manner. I feel K-series is not as good as G series in Swift and this is what many other would also feel, as swift buyers are naturally enthus, so Maruti, come out with VTEC on the AllNewSWIFT from Day 1.

 

@Spock, I think, You should drive both Swifts back to back to understand what I say(again Pun intended) and as I have told at many instances in various threads, I am a fan of loud cars. Most fiats & G-series comes under this and K-series fails to pump my adrenaline.

 

PS - I am a fan of A-Star's K-series. Its peppy & loud.

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@Mr-Spock

I agree with you,Honda's VTEC is simply superb.

Again I agree with you that there is really no place in the complete NCR where you can put your engines on real fire,though NH-8,and DND expressway are good,but you need to wait for midnight...THEN TRUCKS...

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Try next Sunday between 6-7 am.Shankar chowk flyover to Signature tower flyover is the best stretch in that road. After rajiv chowk flyover you have to be extra conscious because people used to climb steel rail and cross the road. It is dangerous to drive beyond that point. Take U turn from under neath of Rajiv chowk flyover and go towards delhi. Drive carefully since you are not going to get any rewards for this speed driving on roads other than racing tracks.

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@creativebala - I love the buzziness of G series engine and its raw power but day to day driving it becomes very tiresome when you to use all the gears just get into moving speed and then repeat the process again in bumper to bumper traffic.

Also the noise feels good initially but becomes tiring

The K series gives you a performance which is adequate for low to moderate performance.If you really want a loud noisy car with same adrenaline feeling in a hatch go for Polo 1.6 because the almost max. power is delivered by this 1.2 , for more power cc does matter which we do have to recognize.

VtVt will not come so soon as maruti will introduce later to keep Model fresh and the cost of this Dual VTVT is to be factored.Just plonking VTVT doesn't make engine good , it has to be built from grounds up , even 1.5 engine from Aveo has does it qualify as a good engine or even M series VTVT is not that good

The G series engine will always be a landmark car engine in Indian scenario nothing can come close except higher cubic engines.

I feel In India no roads are safe beacuse some Moron will delibrately cross your path - So I always drive in a restraint manner.What we require s good racing circuit similar to a old airport - there is one in heart of Delhi(Safdurjung airport) but it is not open for public.

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Thanks a ton. It has been my dream machine for a long time but MSIL has provided an waiting time of approx 3 months for aspiring customers. so I gave a second thought an opted for i10 magna 1.2L. Can anyone tell specifically what updates are coming in Swift Vxi? I think I will go for an Vxi and not for an Zxi. It's bit costly.

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sgiitk2011-02-14 16:11:46

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FE

IRDE- 12 km/l vs Kappa- 11.7 km/l

From these figures I can say' date=' these so called Kappa & K series are just Marketing gimmicks to an extend.
[/quote']

 

Hyundais aren't known for FE in Real sense.

Its their Ease of driveability, User-friendliness & Widespread AfSS Network which makes them desirable. 

As old Santros with 1.0l engine, didn't delivered more than 13-14kmpl on Highways at Decent speeds, at the time when Old Zens with 1.0l G-Series & Old Wagon-R with F-Series engines used to deliver 16-18kmpl easily.

Even read 20+kmpl figures of the latter in many Auto magzines for Highway cycles.

 

So, for Hyundai kappa is more of a Marketing Gimmick.

which is Further strengthened by the fact that their New 800cc Alto-rival will feature 3-cylinder 814cc engine(1086/4 =271.5x3 =814.5cc)based on same Santro's eRLX/i10's iRDE 4-cylinder unit.  

 

IRDE and G-Series engines was not Euro-4 Engines and NVH was quite high in IRDE and G series engines compare to Kappa and K Series engines.

 

Present day Santro with 1.1l eRLX(=iRDE engine) & even i10(iRDE)s prior to its Recent face-lift were BS-IV compliant.

Similarly' date=' MS EECO & Gypsy king still comes with 1.2l(downsized) & 1.3l G-Series engines, which are both BS-IV compliant.

 

But Refinement, efficiency& Emission control are the Call for Introduction of Kappa & K-series engines.

Just look at the FE figures of Swift & Ritz K-Series petrol, as both of them delivers 18+kmpl at Decent speeds with Excellent Mid & Top Power range.

 

8. Throttle-by-wire (Instead of normal cable operated one.)

Maruti Suzuki's 1.0litre 3-cylinder K-Series engine doesn't comes with this Drive by Wire tech, Instead it uses the Conventional Mechanical Cable mechanism for Throttle operations.

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I have mentioned in my earlier post.Please read.VXI with ABS is better option in case you are ready to opt out Air Bags,Climate control,Alloy wheels ,integrated audio systems etc.Now Swift VXI is available in Gurgaon with 2 weeks waiting period.

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