parthi2929

Maruti Ritz or i10 Asta??

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Hello all
        Planning to buy a new car within a budget of 6L (under central empl. so road tax exempted). Thus for me its showroom price + insurance. Within this budget, I have shortlisted the 3 below.
      For petrol, I dont want to go beyond 5L, ready to stretch a little around 5.5L if its diesel.

1. Hyundai i10 sportz around 4.5L (free insurance)
For:
1.1) rear wiper
1.2) good visibility
1.3) powerful engine
against:
1.1) bumpy ride
1.2) pricey for its value
1.3) asta which has ABS and airbags would cost 5.3 L showroom price (for petrol, I dont want to extend beyond 5L (exception: swift zxi) as ride is bumpy in i10. I am ready to tolerate bumpiness for 4.5L not at some 5.3L)
1.4) Hyundai does facelift very often making the resale value of pre-facelift versions a question mark (kappa2 VTVT so soon after kappa?? poor kappa owners)
1.5) Poor FE

2. Maruti ritz ZXI around 5 L (20000 offer so insurance gets cleared in that offer)
For:
2.1) good ride (better suspension than bumpy in i10)
2.2) very good A.S.S (many showrooms, 2 near my home)
2.3) one of the few to offer airbags and abs within this price
2.4) better FE than i10

Against:
2.1) Ugly rear
2.2) bulging back wheels (difficult judgement)
2.3) funky interiors
2.4) very poor visibility (esp rear with C pillar)

3. Ford Figo diesel titanium = around 5.7 L (5.5 showroom + insurance as ford has no offers)
For:
3.1) Excellent suspension => amazing ride
3.2) Reasonable FE in city (14 kmpl) in diesel
3.3) DIESEL at this price smiley1.gif . One of few to offer diesel with so many features in this price segment => VFM
3.4) Very good visibility

Against:
3.1) Ford A.S.S (not comparable to maruti)
3.2) Great suspension on other hand ends up hitting bumps easily on road even at slower speeds
3.3) I could not digest not having rear power window (its ok that its not opening fully) and its not fittable with 3rd party also (why ford why?)

I also test driven punto (punto petrol is underpowered; diesel is beyond budget) but I fear fiat ASS. Also in my inquiries, its maruti and hyundai dealers who were very courteous and helpful. Others, esp Ford and Fiat, lot to improve w.r.t customer communications. They show irritation after some repeated queries which I never found in maruti even after 2 or 3 visits, they always welcome with a smile.

chevy beat offers ABS and airbags at much better value but I still feel some claustrophobic ambience at the rear. further its ABS is not with EBD. ASS would not be bad.

I also test drove swift (though I hated the looks as i am very much used to seeing it) I instantly fell in love when I test drove it. However since swift is to receive facelift (dealer not knowing the date and this has been a rumor since beg of this year; so probably within another 6 to 8 months I expect it to be launched), the current model will lose its resale value after say some 5 years. Vdi is at same price but it has no airbags and optional abs will add another 30k) but due to facelift reason, I am rejecting it :(

w.r.t chevy, diesel beat is gonna be launched but spec says it would be 58bhp which is very less and not enough for highway cruising I feel. If power is more, then I could stand the claustrophobic ambience and still go for it as it would be good VFM (Diesel, airbag and ABS at lowest price)

maruti a-star was too much cramped at the rear (I am 5'10" tall) so rejected

wagon-r has high body roll and not a good highway car = so rejected

tata cars rejected solely for their poor quality interiors (infact it was indica ev2 that scored high on my analysis mainly due to unbeatable FE)

so plz share your views on what do you think I should go for.

within 6 L (forget road tax in my case), is any hatchback out there with diesel, airbags and ABS with EBD (and ofcourse rear power windows and rear wiper with washer and defogger too)?

 

 

 

Thread moved: To the right section.
BornFree2011-06-12 15:09:02

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@Parthi:

I being an i10 kappa owner(current) and having experience of owning a Swift too(sold,vxi variant).I'd recommend you to add Swift Zxi to your list as well as garage too.

If you buy i10 Asta,you will get a fully loaded car but still you will need to upgrade the tyres and the car is somewhat overpriced too.On the other hand nothing is a better overall package then the Swift ZXi.

If not Swift then I'd recommend you to go for Ritz ZXi,its a great package and is fantastically VFM too.What to do with the way the boot looks,you will be seated inside the cabin not boot.The rear view may be somewhat tricky from inner mirror but ORVMs are simply great and yes if you have four passengers with you(three on rear seat) then the rear visibility is simply bad in any car.

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Hi TSiVipul

       Thanks for the quick reply. Swift Zxi is good option with around 5.6L, but for that same price Ford figo diesel titanium (so abs and airbags) kicks in. Now its like to choose between Diesel vs best A.S.S then :(

       Also if to choose swift, then have to wait till the facelift version, no use goign for current model as it will lose on resale value being pre-facelift version years later.

        So for immediate buying coming down the budget lane, its ritz that strikes a good balance with abs, airbags, space, riding on 5L. Also I guess there will be no facelift for ritz in near future.

        Only problem with Ritz will be visibility due to thick C pillars. However I plan to install rear view camera to overcome this issue. what do you guys think?

        Also, the drivers usually end up with wrong judgement due to bulged wheelbase??? I really need many feedbacks on this front to conclude. I test drove the ritz for a distance, did not find that as an issue however I did not try in a crowded situation (its all in main road). Also I am a newbie in driving.

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For beat' date=' don't see the horses figure. It has got 140nm of torque, which will be a good figure on highway roads. Do also expect around 20kmpl in city, so my advice, stick to beat diesel.[/quote']

Any news of the launch of the Beat Diesel? I don't remember seeing any concrete launch dates as yet.

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Any news of the launch of the Beat Diesel? I don't remember seeing any concrete launch dates as yet.

I do not recall Hormazd mentioning any on AC Show. I guess it should be around July or September

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In all aspects and value for money, Ritz diesel is a best option. go for VDI if you are perticular about power windows otherwise go for LDI which is good enough. i bought my LDI last week and it is a great experience within the last week with my car. It scores in every department including the rear design it is realy awesome european style and the car is really aerodynamic and race like a rocket. within this week the FE was 20 highway 75%+city25% driving.

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Hey you have not mentioned your monthly driving..So if it is more than 750 kms, go for Diesel. Ritz and Figo will be ultimate choice. For petrol, it will be between Beat and Ritz. Are you open to 1/1.5 year used car with low mileage on board? You can get so many things in your budget..Best of luck.

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Have a look at the Vista Quadrajet/Safire 90, too, may easily fit into your budget and has most of the features you asked for, but there will be other issues being a Tata, fit and finish and reliability issues. Deserves a look I feel with your budget constraints.

Durango Dude2011-06-13 11:12:12

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I would suggest you to wait for a month  for beat diesel as you already know what this car going to offer.If you can't then go for ritz diesel with closed eyes as its tall boy design with poweful and more than efficient engine best suits indian driving condition.

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thanks to all for active participation.. :)

@Durango Dude: yes I confirmed with dealer about beat diesel but launch date is still not clear for them too..w.r.t quadrajet, yes good car with good engine (fiat mjd) but as u said, its the quality issues that make me shy away.. also scored very less in emergency lane change test conducted here:

@archit: Micra Diesel is too pricey for what it offers and also looks did not inspire me (esp, rear lamps)

@gurrala74: VDI does not offer airbags and there is no ZDI to offer it.. I dont know why airbags are ignored in top variants of ritz and swift. I hope with new launch of swift, this would change.

Figo I feel its not GC thats to blame for underbody hits because its same 165 mm as in i10 and similar cars. I think its soft suspension thats to blame. Imagine stiff spring on which i10 sits..thus bumpy but no underbody hits... for figo, imagine soft spring (high elasticity).. any body on that spring easily can hit ground due to this vertical movement but it is that which results in best suspension and smooth riding.. maruti hits a good balance here in case of ritz and swift.

so as of now, since no clear date about swift facelift and beat diesel in the horizon, its ritz zxi thats best VFM at 5L though its looks are ugly..

dealer said probably next month beat D might launch.. so lets see what it offers..

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Here is the overview of interesting driving calculation I did

Usually for a car, the same variant diesel costs about 1 lakh above its petrol variant.. say petrol is 4.5 L and diesel is 5.5 L

Assumptions:

Petrol: 12 kmpl in city

Diesel: 16 kmpl in city

Petrol: Rs. 70 per litre

Diesel: Rs. 40 per litre

My daily commute in weekdays is 30 km

Not all weekend I go for a long trip, so to distribute its share to entire year, I take every weekend: 60 km

So for a week its 30*5 + 60 = 210 kms

For an year(52 weeks), its 210*52 = 10920 kms

For petrol, the literes needed would be 10920/12 = 910 liters => 910*70 = Rs. 63700

For diesel, the literes needed would be 10920/16 = 682 liters => 682*40 = Rs. 27280

The savings per year: 63700 - 27280 = Rs. 36420

Remember the additional 1 lakh already spent for diesel??

So 100000/36420 = 2.7 years approximately 3 years.

In petrol, this additional cost is met only by 2.7 years after purchase. Till that period, having a petrol vehicle is actually a savings!

After 2.7 years, equal money would have been spent on both petrol and diesel, and therefore, after 2.7 years only the real fuel savings on diesel starts!

Suppose I invest this 1 lakh saved in petrol in FD. Say 8.25% p.a (sbi)

The interest gained in a year would be 100000*(0.0825) = Rs. 8250

In 3 years deposit, it would be Rs.24750

Now 20% of it goes in tax => you get (24750 - 24750*0.2) = Rs. 19800

Our yearly petrol expense is Rs. 36420 more than that of diesel.

So after 2.7 year, for another (36420/19800) = 1.8 years, the cost is taken care by this interest.

So if FD, then 2.7+1.8 years = 4.5 years, the real diesel savings starts..

If you sell before that, there would be much savings than that was spent on diesel.. So the right period to sell the petrol car is before 4.5 years :)

Another point: Due to this diesel providing savings only after 4.5 years, it will only make sense to see diesel after this period.. but by 4.5 years,

the car would have run 10920*4.5 kms = 49140 kms..

that should explain y diesel 2nd hands are rare and those that appear have run so much kms..

Its wise to sell petrol car before 4.5 years and diesel car after 4.5 years for your savings for this driving..

I did not consider rising petrol prices, because since 1989 (data on internet) till to date , the diesel has always been increased whenever petrol increased, maintaining the same difference in prices almost... And this calculation depends on this difference, not actual cost of each. So need not consider rising petrol since diesel price hike will follow soon.

So now it depends on how long I would keep this car... If I plan to sell before 4.5 years, petrol would make sense.. If after 4.5 years, diesel would make sense.. If I get diesel, abs, airbags and rear stuff (wiper,washer,power window) within 5L, then I would surely keep more than 4.5 years.

I am not good in math.. so please correct me if anything wrong...

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And another factor that some might think I would have missed: Maintanence..

In early times, diesel was costing more in maintanence than its petrol couterpart, but now with modern common rail diesel engines, this is no more an issue. So one could safely assume equal maintanence.

Also, to be realistic, FE should be variable then that would make this model more complicated.. also with proper maintanance, driving style and regular service, a rough constant FE could be assumed.

Note that I did not consider highway FE but city FE to calculate least difference and to keep things simple...

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@Parthi:

Its the same calculation that I make and henv=ce find the petrol car more VFM even with the all time high petrol prices.

Yes,you have mentioned that after 2.7 years diesel will start saving.I think after 2.7 years diesel will want an intense care and maintainance too at the same time.And yes if the car has done a high mileage(Because I have observed that diesel cars owners run their cars uselessly too.Only because they are cheaper to run,so people think of even going for morning walks in their diesel cars).then the car may be traded-in.Now where are the savings?

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Looking at your considerations & requirements Ritz VDi ABS seems to be the best option for you.

Don't bother much about the cons related with as with time you'll get used to them.

Reverse visibilty can be taken care with the aid of Reverse Parking sensors.

Beat Diesel is also supposed to be launched by end of this month or by mid-July.

within 6 L (forget road tax in my case)' date=' is any hatchback out there with diesel, airbags and ABS with EBD (and ofcourse rear power windows and rear wiper with washer and defogger too)?[/quote']

Ford Figo is the only car closer(pardon Rear power windows) to what you thinks.

But wait for a month, Beat Diesel is coming to fill this void soon.

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@TSiVipul: Yes, I see many friends simply to go for diesel since petrol prices are sky rocketing but they actually do not "see" when and how the savings start.. so wanted to share this calculation instead of blindly choosing diesel..

even thought of creating a model with different usage, FE, etc to see if anything interesting could be derived that favours petrol more..

for eg, FD was just an investment involving least labour and skills. If you are smart enough, make this 1 lakh saved, to earn the difference (Rs.36420) per year to meet additional diesel costs after 4.5 years

Ha.. now with 5L budget and with current options, for me its ABS+airbags or diesel but not both :(

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If figo had power window option (atleast upgrade possibility later) or ritz VDI ABS with airbags (airbags available only in ZXi of ritz and swift), I could landed on one by now I feel..   :)

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@Parthi:
Its the same calculation that I make and henv=ce find the petrol car more VFM even with the all time high petrol prices.
Yes' date='you have mentioned that after 2.7 years diesel will start saving.I think after 2.7 years diesel will want an intense care and maintainance too at the same time.And yes if the car has done a high mileage(Because I have observed that diesel cars owners run their cars uselessly too.Only because they are cheaper to run,so people think of even going for morning walks in their diesel cars).then the car may be traded-in.Now where are the savings?[/quote']

 

While people caculate the saving when buying a petrolover diesel they miss out the fear factor. Petrols de-regularised and yesterday Govt of India has raised the subsidy amount for fuels.

 

Have owned diesel vehicals since last 15 years and still have to face the heavy maintenance people talk about. Infact even Indica V2 was light on pocket if taken care properly.

 

It is quite clear that diesel engine of today are as good as their petrol counter parts.

 

People see that diesel being used to ofter for unwanted reasons but o other hand i feel diesel encourge long family trip also.

 

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So if FD' date=' then 2.7+1.8 years = 4.5 years, the real diesel savings starts..
[/quote']

 

Excellent calculations parthi.

But Let me add something more;

-Even New-age Diesel cars have 50% more Regular Service costs over the corresponding petrols.

-Diesel cars relatively depriciate more than petrols, due to their high initial price & lower reliability.

-Relatively More Insurance, Registration & Extended warranty costs for Diesel cars.

-Diesel cars have the average life-span of 5-6 years as compared to 8-10 years of Japaneese petrols due to their complex, heavy Mechanicals & higher usage.

-More Initial discounts & offers(usually ranging from 20-40k) on Petrol cars than Diesels.

-More Interest, which needs to be paid in Financed cases.

 

I'd advice our gurus & other ACI-ians to comment/add on this further.

So Diesel cars seems more like a Myth of cheaper to drive machine, unless you clock really really high kms. 

All this've even made me to reconsider my car purchase decision for once.

 

..i bought my LDI last week and it is a great experience within the last week with my car.
 

 

Congratulations on buying the New Ritz LDi.

You're advised to Initiate a seprate ownership thread for your Ritz LDi diesel in Reader Test Team section.

Its eagerly awaited with detailed Initial ownership review & complete set of proper sized pics.

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But Let me add something more;

-Even New-age Diesel cars have?50% more?Regular Service costs over the corresponding petrols.

Wrong its more of 10-15% over your petrol cars. People always say regular service would cost more because after 1-2 year people do 50-60K on a diesel car. Even petrol car would need extensive service here. From my experience of owning diesels is that if you take car of it will give petrol cars run for their money.

-Diesel cars relatively depriciate more than petrols' date=' due to?their?high initial price & lower reliability.
[/quote']

Shocking. Diesel in current used car markets hold their value. You can check your local used car market. And as for reliability they aren't any less reliable than petrols. Infact in certain conditions diesels are more reliable.

-Relatively More Insurance' date=' Registration & Extended warranty costs for Diesel?cars.
[/quote']

Insurance cost will hardly go up by 2-3ks, registration by 8-10k and extended warrentys are same.

-Diesel cars?have the average life-span?of 5-6 years as compared to 8-10 years of Japaneese petrols due to?their complex' date=' heavy Mechanicals & higher usage.
[/quote']

Dr we are talking about Crdi'ss here. Swift DDIS have gone strong till 3 lakh kilometers. I don't petrol counter-parts could take such beatings.

-More Initial discounts & offers(usually ranging from 20-40k) on Petrol cars than Diesels.

Yes because diesels fly of the shelf.

-More Interest' date=' which needs to be paid in Financed cases.

?
[/quote']

Yes but look at it from this way. People say they save when buying a petrol car but keep in mind the following issues

Prices of petrol is liberalised now. People are already talking about it reaching 72 by end of this year. Eg of prices in bombay. 68.5X/lt vs 42.XX.

Less avg in city and bumper to bumper traffic compared to diesel.

From my experience in bombay traffic Swift DDIS would return FE between 13-15 km/lt and petrol counter part was as low as 7-9 KM/pl

Calculate it with the price and avg running.

lower resale value when compared to diesel

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@Parthi:

Firstly I appreciate your demand for ABS and airbags in your car,one must be careful about this too(For me its mandatory to get ABS and airbags,and all three of my cars have it,even my bike is fitted with an aftermaket ABS).I still vote to go for a petrol car instead of a diesel:

Dr Nishu has summarised the whole thing in a fantastic and understandable manner,my vote is with him.

What about the driving pleasure,a compromise in diesels?

Business style:When I asked my father to get Laura L&K,he said that you want to spend 5 lacs more for a diesel car!!These 5 lacs can be 15 in next 4-5 years...smiley36.gif

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People owning diesel and petrol cars more than 5 years could share about maintainence costs.. Since modern diesels are as good as petrol, I assumed equal maintanence all along their lifetime..

The additional cost Rs. 36000 per year would then be lost as additional expense for diesel maintanence?? I think that would be too much a value?!

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Excellent calculations parthi.

But Let me add something more;

-Even New-age Diesel cars have 50% more Regular Service costs over the corresponding petrols.

-Diesel cars relatively depriciate more than petrols' date=' due to their high initial price & lower reliability.

-Relatively More Insurance, Registration & Extended warranty costs for Diesel cars.

-Diesel cars have the average life-span of 5-6 years as compared to 8-10 years of Japaneese petrols due to their complex, heavy Mechanicals & higher usage.

-More Initial discounts & offers(usually ranging from 20-40k) on Petrol cars than Diesels.
[/quote']

All this info has been known for a long time; but it has been forgotten due to the "yawning" gap between petrol and diesel prices; and this info has to be 'revisited' now and then to drive home the point.

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