parthi2929

Maruti Ritz or i10 Asta??

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Chill down dude.

I'm not biasing my opinion, i'm just discussing the general facts about Diesels vs Petrols here.

But Let me add something more;

-Even New-age Diesel cars have?50% more?Regular Service costs over the corresponding petrols.

Wrong its more of 10-15% over your petrol cars. People always say regular service would cost more because after 1-2 year people do 50-60K on a diesel car. Even petrol car would need extensive service here.

May i know' date=' to which corresponding Diesel & Petrol cars you're referring these figures here.

I've quoted my above statement with taking into account the case of most frugal Swift Diesel vs Swift 1.2 k-series Petrol.

Swift 1.2 Petrol paid service costs around Rs.2500-2800 whereas of diesel costs around Rs.5200-5800(thanks to its higher parts costs like fuel filter, etc).

Another is the case of Polo 1.2 petrol vs Polo 1.2 diesel, the paid service of the former costs around Rs.6k whereas for the latter it costs around Rs.8.5k.

In percentage it comes out as a massive difference of 40-100%.

However Service costs for Tata, Ford & european brands petrols might differ by lesser margins as their Petrol engines are quite unreliable & maintenance hungry w.r.t. Japaneese petrols.

Independent Parts costs for CRDi diesels are very high & a crap engine Injector of even Swift or Figo can slap 20-22k on its owner for its replacement.

-Diesel cars relatively depriciate more than petrols' date=' due to?their?high initial price & lower reliability.
[/quote']

Shocking. Diesel in current used car markets hold their value. You can check your local used car market. And as for reliability they aren't any less reliable than petrols.

Don't compare Petrol viz Diesel resale value.

Just compare w.r.t the initial investment done(OTR price including everything).

Pardon Swift Diesel every car depriciates massively, even its nearest cousin -Ritz suffers from the same.

Infact in certain conditions diesels are more reliable.

Yes' date=' its very much true incase of SUVs, MUVs, Ford, Tata & some european brands.

Insurance cost will hardly go up by 2-3ks, registration by 8-10k and extended warrentys are same.

As per famous Hindi saying,'Boond boond se sagar bharta hai'.

These trio further pushes the initial costs further by 20k for a car costing sub Rs.7-8 lacs.

Registration costs of specially Diesel cars are increased by more than 25% in some states & some Metro cities from April 2011.

As the components of these cars differs so Extended warranty also differs by almost 10-15%.

-Diesel cars?have the average life-span?of 5-6 years as compared to 8-10 years of Japaneese petrols due to?their complex' date=' heavy Mechanicals & higher usage.
[/quote']

Dr we are talking about Crdi'ss here. Swift DDIS have gone strong till 3 lakh kilometers. I don't petrol counter-parts could take such beatings.

Oh dude ! !

Have you forgot Old Zen's 1.0 litre All-aluminium G10B engine, it easily survives for 3.5-4 lakh kms.

Not the mention anything about Brilliant engines of Honda City.

NA Diesels usually lasts(remains Reliable & Driver friendly) around 4-5 years, whereas CRDIs can survive 40-50% better but only if kept with utmost care. But can easily ruin its owner if they goes crap.

Less avg in city and bumper to bumper traffic compared to diesel.

From my experience in bombay traffic Swift DDIS would return FE between 13-15 km/lt and petrol counter part was as low as 7-9 KM/pl

Though Diesels are more efficient than similar Petrol engines but Petrols aren't that much far behind now.

New Swift/Ritz 1.2 petrol easily delivers 13-15kmpl in city with 100% AC & one of my cousin is getting it from his Ritz ZXI in Ludhiana trafficky conditions.

Even Laura TSI delivers above10kmpl in city conditions comfortably, as TSiVipul once shared.

Together(if not independently) these facts adds up to the Ownership costs of a car & can really influence the budget of a regular middle class car owner who drives a car for his Job<-->Office commute, in a long term.

Or to those who're worried by rising Petrol prices & alternatively seeking for a Diesel car for his 1000-1200km/month driving.

However for Heavy Driving & Routine Inter-city travel Diesels are still choice the of day.dr_nishu2011-06-14 09:14:46

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@sarabjeet: I think most of your queries, dr_nishu has answered.. we are not in favour of petrol.. we are just analyzing in depth, where exactly we get more savings and how.. This analysis is actually significant to office goers who take their car in the morning and back home in evening most of the days covering mere 30 to 40 kms per day...

This analysis does not hold to people who drive more than 100 km per day like buses, lorry services,travel cars, etc.. for them, this 4.5 year would be like 6 months or an year at which, the additional cost would be met after which diesel will provide them good savings (even with more maintanence costs if there any)

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I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH @sarabjeet. in today's situation diesel cars are steps ahead in all front from petrols except the initial cost. maintenance is not that painful like earlier days

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Here is the interesting petrol vs diesel trend table from 1989:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2010/02/04/india-fuel-prices-idINSGE6130E720100204

I uploaded in excel (whew, that was not easy due to rough format of table) and drew a chart to see their difference in price from 1989.. here is the trend:

http://postimage.org/image/k6ilgb8k/

As you can see, a few years after 1989, the petrol and diesel always raised together, maitaining roughly constant difference noted by the green line..

From this statistics, we could say, diesel price rise would follow soon to maintain this constant difference..

I also tried getting OPEC data to compare if this conforms with international crude oil price but I could not get that.. If we could draw another line for that, we could see if our politicians were lying or not blaming the international hike :)

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I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH @sarabjeet. in today's situation diesel cars are steps ahead in all front from petrols except the initial cost. maintenance is not that painful like earlier days

             It is that "initial cost" that is one of the main factor that brings a difference here at when the real savings start as could be seen in my calcuation.. In diesel, you pay at the beginning itself, in petrol you pay it per feul pumping.. At one point of time, equal money would be spent on both cars w.r.t fuel.. (should name this moment of time, shall I call maturity point or something?!)

If this time frame is very less, say within a year, then it makes absolute sense to go for diesel.. but if it takes about 5 years, and in that time, you might grow to afford a sedan or better car, then petrol makes sense :)

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But after that Maturity Point (MP) (which for us office goers is about 4 or 5 years), if diesel maintanence cost is more than what is saved in its fuel, then again petrol wins hand in hand here.. so thats probably another model to be analyzed :)

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I am with Parthi and Dr Nishu for the information furnished above,why?Sarabjeet and Gurrala,have a look at all the posts above.If I would have been a buyer now then I'd have surely be more satisfied with what Dr Nishu has mentioned above(Surely he is a petrol car owner and lover too like I am).Now let's come to the point:-

First query:Initial ownership-PRICE FACTOR.

Here the petrols win with their low price+taxes+insurance premiums,I think there is a vast difference between the prices.Just think:You get a fully loaded Swift ZXi at the price of Swift VDi,which does not have anything else except A/C,power windows,puny tyres which lack grip and an engine too(I forgot it)..smiley36.gif,while in ZXi you get a music system,ABS,airbags,steering mounted audio controls..and yes A BRILLIANT K-SERIES ENGINE WITH THOSE GREAT LOOKING ALLOYS AND WIDER TYRES FOR INCREASING YOUR DRIVING PLEASURE.

Here I have not mentioned the price difference,but have mentioned the difference of features at the same price because many people don't tend to understand the price difference.

Second query:Maintainance.

Here I'd mention an old quote "Baap-baap hota hai,bete-beta" and diesels are 'baap' in this field.If anyone has even a single example of a diesel which really has lesser appetite than its petrol sibling,them I will sell out my Laura TSi and get L&K TDI next day.

What to do with those fuel pump etc etc things?And I am sure that my dear diesel lovers will surely be knowing that nose-heavy diesels love to eat up the front suspension and as mentioned above older the 'Baap' gets,more maintainance he needs,same way older the diesel car gets more care it needs..

@Sarabjeet:I'd like to have a look at this 3 lac something done Swift DDiS which is still going STRONG!!I too own a diesel car(oh-A diesel TOYOTA)and immense care is okay,driving style is also okay....JUST TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH AGEING,which is something the diesels never forget to do,petrols too age up,but rather slowly??

I DON'T AGREE AT ALL ON THIS SWIFT STORY,IF ITS THERE THEN I WANNA BUY THE CAR.RIGHT TODAY*,PM me owner's address,contact no. and I'll get the car on ACI forum within next 24 hours*,and thats a promise.I am sure either the car has got a good refurbishment or it has got complete engine transplant.Or its going as strong as a Maruti 800.

Third query:Fuel economy.

this is where diesels give a clean sweep to petrols,and the high prices of petrol are just like icing on the cake for diesels.But again as mentioned by Dr Nishu-petrols are also not too far behind,just compare Vento or Verna diesel with Honda City,and you will get the answer for your questions.I bet that Honda City can deliver 18-19 kpl on highways,and I can bet on it because I got this on my trip to Jaipur(about 700kms long trip).And an overall FE of 14.38.And yes,performance is a bonus point too.

Same is with Swift too,drive the petrol Swift with somewhat more care(no one can do,because Swift won't give pleasure then)and you will get the identical figures to the diesel Swift..AM I RIGHT?I can bet that my Laura gives 10+ in city and 15+ on highways with me driving it with ease(always 120+ on highways..6th gear advantage)tell me a diesel car which gives you even 16-17 on highways with speed above 120?None is there,I have tried Swift,Indica Vista,i20 CRDI,VW Polo...none did the wonder.If anyone can do it,then he/she should meet me..

Fourth query:Others

1)Performance:Petrols always..

2)Handling:Petrol wins...

3)Braking:Petrols,due to their lighter weight..

Is it a psychological problem with me or other members(Those who own at least one petrol car) too have observed it:In diesel cars you will always find a slight smell of something(like diesel).Hoping I am not alone.I have observed it in mainly UVs.Hatches and Sedans too have,but not that much.

I am not against diesels,in fact I love my Innova more than even my Laura..but I am against this untouchable type behavior with petrols,why?Only because they are more expensive to run,so they are lack potential!!

(NOTE:The above mentioned thoughts are my personal,and I'll feel happy if you get them corrected if you find them wrong,I have no intentions to hurt someone here)

*Conditions apply.TSiVipul2011-06-14 17:33:26

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Is it a psychological problem with me or other members(Those who own at least one petrol car) too have observed it:In diesel cars you will always find a slight smell of something(like diesel).Hoping I am not alone.I have observed it in mainly UVs.Hatches and Sedans too have' date='but not, that much.

[/quote']

Its more of a psychological type, considering the type of cleanliness & emissions modern diesels offer, especially hatchbacks & sedans.

Pardon Tata cars, One can never get the hint of a Diesel by sitting in a modern CRDi engined cars.

even Mahindra cars are very much cleaner, efficient & reliable now.

BMW, Mercs, Audi, VW-Skoda, Hyundai, Maruti-Fiat, Chevrolet(except Tavera) Diesels are simply awesome to own, drive & to enjoy.

What only you needs is enough Mile munching to justify & exploit them completely.

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drive the petrol Swift with somewhat more care(no one can do' date='because Swift won't give pleasure then)and you will get the identical figures to the diesel Swift..AM I RIGHT?[/quote']

+1

Yesterday, I was in Chennai Byepass( open highway ) and decided to drive around 2000rpm to save my pocket, but I can listen to my mind only for 5mins.

My heart jumps in and swift flies. Period.

 

You are talking about driving Petrol sedately to get better FE( around 15kmpl) right? If the Diesel is driven in the same manner, it should deliver more than 20kmpl, so no match for Diesel's economy.

 

PS - @Vipul,

Have a long trip in Punto/ Swift D, then you will change your mind on Diesel. The Turbo kicks, in-gear acceleration, the roar, the Fuel bill,.. etc brings BIG smile in our face.

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@Dr Nishu:

Even I too think that it is a psychological problem with me because even I too think how is it possible for the modern CRDI engined cars to have it..but still.

My Innova too feels stinking to me when I sit in it,but the feeling disappears after 1-2 minutes,and once I sat in a Verna I haen't felt anything but as soon as my friend told me that it is a CRDI,the smell was felt...smiley36.gif.

@Creativebala:

See,in case of Swift-the heart wins and pocket loses.. smiley2.gif,I have made many long trips in diesel cars(mainly Swift)even I have taken the car to Ladakh too via Rohtang(the worst road in the world where even SUVs bog down)and never question its capabilities,in fact its better than the petrol on hills due to higher torque and power kick-in at lower revs.Still I have felt that if you drive it hard(I mean really hard-about 140-150,which I often cross in my Laura)then the fuel economy really takes a dip..

If one really wants to enjoy a diesel or its roar,then in my views the best car is CHEVROLET OPTRA MAGNUM,the raw power and the spike at 2000rpm(FGT effect) can really make you love this car..even more than Cruze

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Chill down dude.
I'm not biasing my opinion' date=' i'm just discussing the general facts about Diesels vs Petrols here.
.[/quote']

 

Lol i ain't hyper veera just sharing some experience.

 


[May i know' date= to which corresponding Diesel & Petrol cars you're referring these figures here.
I've quoted my above statement with taking into account the case of most frugal Swift Diesel vs Swift 1.2 k-series Petrol.
Swift 1.2 Petrol paid service costs around Rs.2500-2800 whereas of diesel costs around Rs.5200-5800(thanks to its higher parts costs like fuel filter, etc). [/quote]

 

Nishu . had owned both cars. My service bills never crossed 4000K. They were always in the range of 3200-3800. For both Swift and Ritz diesel.

 



Another is the case of Polo 1.2 petrol vs Polo 1.2 diesel' date=' the paid service of the former costs around Rs.6k whereas for the latter it costs around Rs.8.5k.
In percentage it comes out as a massive difference of 40-100%.

[/quote']

 

Yes service bills are high for VW not sure about 8.5K but don't you service a VW once in a year/15,000km ? 2500 hardly matters here .

 



However Service costs for Tata' date=' Ford & european brands petrols might differ by lesser margins as their Petrol engines are quite unreliable & maintenance hungry w.r.t. Japaneese petrols.
Independent Parts costs for CRDi diesels are very high & a crap engine Injector of even Swift or Figo can slap 20-22k on its owner for its replacement.

[/quote']

The point is Crdi's are robust. They are build for heavy duty. Chances of them failing is quite less to be frank. Not sure but how much does a Petrol injector for the same costs ?


Don't compare Petrol viz Diesel resale value.
Just compare w.r.t the initial investment done(OTR price including everything).
Pardon Swift Diesel every car depriciates massively' date=' even its nearest cousin -Ritz suffers from the same. [/quote']

Well bought my Ritz Vdi for 5,40,000 drove it for a year and sold it for 4,65,000 to one of my friend. Market price was close to 4,70,000-4,80,000.

Problem with petrol car these days are (no grudge just telling you about second hand car market senario) is people are hunting for diesels. Petrol cars are moving slow. Yes small cars like Alto, wagon R , i10 do move but swift, Ritz, i20 are quite slow movers and go for less than their value. If you visit my thread you would notice that an 2010 done 4000km on Odo i20 Asta with sunroof was up for grab for 5.50 lakhs. Way below it depreciated value




Registration costs of specially Diesel cars are increased by more than 25% in some states & some Metro cities from April 2011.
As the components of these cars differs so Extended warranty also differs by almost 10-15%.

Chevy was offering it at same price for Magnum and Tavera. Dunno for others because i never opt for extended warrenty. 

-Diesel cars have the average life-span of 5-6 years as compared to 8-10 years of Japaneese petrols due to their complex' date=' heavy Mechanicals & higher usage.
[/quote']

Wrong here Dr. Japanese diesel engine run even strong after a decade. Try any imported Pajero or infact an Indian 2003-4 model. Even Innova and tavera run strong.


 

Oh dude ! !
Have you forgot Old Zen's 1.0 litre All-aluminium G10B engine' date=' it easily survives for 3.5-4 lakh kms.
Not the mention anything about Brilliant engines of Honda City.
NA Diesels usually lasts(remains Reliable & Driver friendly) around 4-5 years, whereas CRDIs can survive 40-50% better but only if kept with utmost care. But can easily ruin its owner if they goes crap.
[/quote']

 

Dr. yes you are quite right with example of Honda and maruti's but diesel engine are ment to do 3-4 lakh kilometers. If that wasn't the case taxi's would be running on petrol and charge their passangers more for their ride. Innova, tavera, scorpio and Sumo all do touch those figures. As for maintenance even very few petrol engine make it past 1,50,000 km mark and most of them need to be over-hauled at this stage.

 


Though Diesels are more efficient than similar Petrol engines but Petrols aren't that much far behind now.
New Swift/Ritz 1.2 petrol easily delivers 13-15kmpl in city with 100% AC & one of my cousin is getting it from his Ritz ZXI in Ludhiana trafficky conditions.
Even Laura TSI delivers above10kmpl in city conditions comfortably' date=' as TSiVipul once shared. 
 [/quote']
Dr. you guys are blessed to have open roads up in north. Driving in Bombay traffic and getting 13-15 kmpl would be applaudable. Down here we need 1:30 to 2 hours to cover a distance of 8-9 kms with driving in 1-2-3 gear 90% of the time. My friends superb 1.8 Tsi return FE of 5 kmpl on way from Chembur to Bandra (his daily route)

 


This analysis does not hold to people who drive more than 100 km per day like buses' date=' lorry services,travel cars, etc.. for them, this 4.5 year would be like 6 months or an year at which, the additional cost would be met after which diesel will provide them good savings (even with more maintanence costs if there any) 
 [/quote']

100 km a day travel is a thing of past. In India each city have different driving conditions. Here in Bombay one has to constantly keep his foot on the clutch to shift down/ shift up. The FE figure in Bombays bumper to bumper Traffic can send any one in state of shock. As for me here down in Bombay diesel makes better sense than. We do 50-60 km daily in heavy traffic. Here are my choice Swift petrol 7-8 kmpl or swift diesel 13-15 kmpl. I would choose swift Diesel with my eyes closed.

 

Even if i cannot Break Even within a year in my diesel car I still would go for diesel because i wouldn't have to think about the next fill-up due to the low mileage i get from Petrol powered car. After all when you buy a car you are buying it for personal use, what sense will it make if it sits in the parking lot.

 




 
sarabjeet2011-06-15 07:37:30

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yes it is a PSYCHOLOGICAL problem i feel with @VIPUL@DR.NISHU@ both seems to be more tent to petrol cars and still living with older diesel engines the TDI's. come out and experience the new age diesel engines which are more silent than the petrols with awesome performace in all aspects. with their built and weight you will have a perfect grip on the road and very comfortable drive, braking its much safer in diesel cars today.

just look at the price of fuel today Rs.42 diesel and Rs.72 petrol so do you still say it is just nominal ??

just look at the news paper Rs.20000 to 50000 discounts everyday advertisement for petrol cars and zero discount and 2 to 4 months waiting periods for diesels especially swift and Ritz, so do you say all this is marketing trick or most of the people in the country have gone mad on diesels ?

your calculation story was good 2 to 3 years back but now with the steep increase in petrol cost and also the superior engines in diesels today.

so please come out of the psychological blockage and buy a nice diesel car

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guys guys.... still people get deviated I think.. In general modern diesel cars are good... In general modern petrol cars are also good.. In general everything is good... so, if we look in general, we derive nothing! we need to choose some particular parameters and focus.

what we "focus" here are some specific parameters, money being mainly one of them. While comfort, looks, are all relative and difficult to model, money is one easy and very important parameter to model, at least for people like me (read middle class). I don't give a damn about top class a high class diesel sedan giving a ultra smooth ride than another model's petrol variant.. I limit myself first to a budget.. atleast the min and max (streching comes later after modeling).. then I filter out the cars falling within that... then I list the parameters (FE, looks, comfort, driveability, etc) and I give weightage to them.. FE for me carries maximum weightage... with this analysis, some top variants of petrol hatchbacks and some middle and base variants of diesel hatchbacks got filtered finally...

Now with this analysis, I filtered out the 3 finally I mentioned in the beginning but each had their own pros and cons... since diesel and petrol also fall within this, now I should see "for these cars or like similar ones", for my driving distances, in my city, how much savings I would get (when is the break even?)..

My city is not as congested as mumbai, so what holds good here for me does not hold sarabjeet.. while I might break even at 4.5 years, he would break even within a year due to heavy traffic.. but he has to derive and see for himself,.. if its with a year or two, diesel would be a better buy.. (thats again relative).. depending on this period, one has to chooose... If I choose I will sell before 4.5 years, for me, better deal would be to go for petrol cars.. if not, diesel would make sense..

then came the question of maintanence (I initially assumed equal due to modern CRDs).. now I should see "for these cars", what are these maintanence costs and useful life span.. and this would be applicable only if diesel is gonna cost more than its petrol counterpart.. see, the comparision here is a diesel variant vs its own petrol counter part (that way it would be simple and better rather than comparing cars at different levels which do not yield us anything here)..say a ritz vdi vs ritz zxi (because both costing almost same).. or a ford figo being diesel, having abs and airbags still falling with the budget.. remember this confined space of money and cars within it for which the analysis should focus on..

@gurrala: when you feul ur car, you only see that instant, that you are paying more for petrol than diesel.. and forgetting the initial additional cost ("of its petrol variant whcih is about 1 lakh lesser and not any other petrol".. this specificity is important here.. lets not loose it).. Rs. 72 petrol and Rs. 42 diesel are just part of the picture.. whole picture is finally how much you end up paying?? when did we say, we agree with Rs.72 is ok.. ofcourse its not nominal..

In diesel cars, govt charges you at the beginning itself, (and thats how the subsidy happens) thats why petrol cars are cheaper.. since many people are not analyzing to this depth and only see "oh, petrol is sky rocketing.. lets go for diesel", thats why companies sell at discounts.. the market depends on people's presumption, no matter if its rational, justified or not.

still I say, lets analyze with focus... we are not in favour of petrol or diesel here.. we are just analyzing atleast how much we actually save and at what time..

btw, maruti workers at strike... so swift diesels are already delayed a lot.. i really doubt if we could expect new swift anytime soon...

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lets also talk about resale value as sarabjeet raised it..

Suppose you buy a petrol variant for 4.5L,

and a diesel variant for 5.5L

Lets see a scenario of 2 years with the following assumption:

Petrol FE: 12 kmpl

Diesel FE: 16 kmpl

Petrol: Rs. 70 per litre

Diesel: Rs. 40 per litre

Let us say both drives same distance daily and so annualy 10920 kms as calculated earlier (210 kms per week * 52 weeks)

By 2nd year end, distance travelled would be = 10920*2 = 21840 kms

Cost:

For petrol average litres consumed = 21840/12 = 1820 litres => 1820*70 = Rs.127400

For diesel, average litres consumed = 21840/16 = 1365 litres => 1365*40 = Rs.54600

Diesel is modern CRD, so I assume equal maintanance to both cars, so that price need not be included here (hope you could understand why it need not be included. its the offset we focus)

The savings in diesel = 127400 - 54600 = Rs.72800

Now lets bring in FD: 1 lakh deposited for 2 years lock period, 8.25% interest will give you = (100000*8.25*2/100) = Rs.16500

After 20% tax, its Rs.13200

So net savings between petrol and diesel at this stage = Rs.72800 - Rs.13200 = Rs.59600

Now remember the initial additional 1 lakh you paid for diesel?? Since diesel saved you Rs. 59600,after 2 years, your net savings in petrol

would be reduced to Rs. 100000 - Rs.59600 = Rs.40400

That is, after 2 years, your petrol savings is Rs.40400 more than diesel due to that initial 1 lakh you already put in diesel.

It is now like you have petrol vehicle to sell and have already Rs.40400 in your pocket. On other hand, you have only diesel vehicle to sell.

Now if you sell your diesel which you bought for 5.5L, to say "A" lakhs

Suppose you sell your petrol vehicle for 4.5L, to say "B" lakhs

Now "A" will be surely higher than "B" (as the saying goes, people hunting for diesel) but, "B" can be about Rs.40400 lower than what "A" sells still leaving u at no loss.

Only when "B" is lesser than ("A" minus Rs.40400), the loss from reselling price of petrol starts.. that too, the loss is not ("A" - "B") but, its ("A - RS.40400 - "B")

(say suppose diesel sells at 4 lakhs, then even if petrol sells at (400000-40400 = Rs.359600) lakhs, it is ok, since we already have Rs.40400 from petrol as savings but if it goes below Rs.359600, petrol reselling price is at loss when compared to diesel. say, it sells at 3.25L, then loss is not (400000-325000 = Rs.75000) but (400000-40400-325000 = Rs. 34600).

whew... understood??? :)

bottomline: so u could sell safely that petrol variant Rs.40400 less than how much diesel variant sold for without a loss for you. no problem.

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It could seem that there is a catch.. u bought diesel for 5.5L and petrol for 4.5L.. so assume you sell 1L lesser after 2 years for diesel.. say you sell diesel at 4.5L..

petrol, you will sell definetly much lesser, , say 1.5L lesser, that is u sell petrol at 3L, then the resale loss in diesel = 1L

resale loss in petrol = not 1.5L but (150000-40400 = Rs.109600 only).. :)

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@Parthi,Sarabjeet and Dr Nishu:

Quite nice calculations have been done by Parthi with quite clever observations and Dr Nishu has also shared some real gems of information.Sarabjeet has really laid his opinions on the solid foundations too.

We have really gone through a thorough discussion on the topic diesels vs petrols but where has our core topic of discussion lost?Where is i10 or Ritz?

Lets either get back to the topic or:-

Lets request mods to get the title changed.

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yes, changing to "could petrol savings be more than diesel? when it is and when it is not" would be a better topic, inviting more people to feed their inputs.. and i10,ritz choice we could carry it along it

(problem is this savings topic is confined to that budget space, its linked to it, thats why I was hesitating for a change of topic)

what do you guys say? u could also suggest a title but not like "petrol vs diesel" we would again lose focus and discussions will make it generic leading to nothing.. :)

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Second query:Maintainance.
Here I'd mention an old quote "Baap-baap hota hai' date='bete-beta" and diesels are 'baap' in this field.If anyone has even a single example of a diesel which really has lesser appetite than its petrol sibling,them I will sell out my Laura TSi and get L&K TDI next day.
What to do with those fuel pump etc etc things?And I am sure that my dear diesel lovers will surely be knowing that nose-heavy diesels love to eat up the front suspension and as mentioned above older the 'Baap' gets,more maintainance he needs,same way older the diesel car gets more care it needs..

 .[/quote']

well before all aluminum petrol engines came , they use to be as heavy as diesel ones. The weight is not the factor for front suspensions giving in, it is wear and tear. You will notice that diesel car does 2-2.5 times mile crunching than a petrol car.



@Sarabjeet:I'd like to have a look at this 3 lac something done Swift DDiS which is still going STRONG!!I too own a diesel car(oh-A diesel TOYOTA)and immense care is okay' date='driving style is also okay....JUST TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH AGEING,which is something the diesels never forget to do,petrols too age up,but rather slowly??
I DON'T AGREE AT ALL ON THIS SWIFT STORY,IF ITS THERE THEN I WANNA BUY THE CAR.RIGHT TODAY*,PM me owner's address,contact no. and I'll get the car on ACI forum within next 24 hours*,and thats a promise.I am sure either the car has got a good refurbishment or it has got complete engine transplant.Or its going as strong as a Maruti 800.
[/quote']

Tour operators, taxi operators. Once i was in Pune and had to hire a car as i had to do alot of trip in and around pune. Taxi operator got a Swift LDi which had done 2,70,000 kms. It was still running smoothly.

Its not that he hasn't touched the engine Vipul. After every 90,000-1,00,000 km there needs to be alot of work done in Petrol and Diesel vehicals both. Suspensions spark-plugs, fuel filter, fuel pump etc etc and a over-haul at 1,60,000 - 2,00,000 kms. You have to do it be it petrol or diesel.


Third query:Fuel economy.
this is where diesels give a clean sweep to petrols' date='and the high prices of petrol are just like icing on the cake for diesels.But again as mentioned by Dr Nishu-petrols are also not too far behind,just compare Vento or Verna diesel with Honda City,and you will get the answer for your questions.I bet that Honda City can deliver 18-19 kpl on highways,and I can bet on it because I got this on my trip to Jaipur(about 700kms long trip).And an overall FE of 14.38.And yes,performance is a bonus point too.
Same is with Swift too,drive the petrol Swift with somewhat more care(no one can do,because Swift won't give pleasure then)and you will get the identical figures to the diesel Swift..AM I RIGHT?I can bet that my Laura gives 10+ in city and 15+ on highways with me driving it with ease(always 120+ on highways..6th gear advantage)tell me a diesel car which gives you even 16-17 on highways with speed above 120?None is there,I have tried Swift,Indica Vista,i20 CRDI,VW Polo...none did the wonder.If anyone can do it,then he/she should meet me..

[/quote']

Again as i have said before. You guys are lucky to have such wide roads in North. Infact i have never reached the 6th gear of my BMW in Bombay roads that says it all.

Today while coming back home from Andheri to Chembur via Powai it took me 2 hours. To cross IIT Powai(Mumbai) there is a bottle neck of 2 km. It took 1 Hour of bumper to bumper scraping to reach the eastern express way.

 

Agreed when you say that petrol are frugal.But don't we need open roads to exploit that ??


 
I am not against diesels' date='in fact I love my Innova more than even my Laura..but I am against this untouchable type behavior with petrols,why?Only because they are more expensive to run,so they are lack potential!! 

[/quote']

I love Petrol cars to. But do not understand why people under-estimate modern diesel engines. Infact Audi has proven it by defeating the worlds best petrol engine.

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@Sarabjeet:

I think you have read today's TOI's last page where Audi has mentioned it in bold letters that "We have again won the Le-mans 24 hours with a diesel car".but it really does not have any effect on me because its not the diesel or petrol which wins the race.ITS THE DRIVER WHO RACES AND WINS,THE ONLY THING HE NEEDS IS A COMPETITIVE MACHINE,a machine with 90% performance can defeat one with 100% performance only driver needs to be a winner.

I have many times eaten up an Audi 2.0 TDi ofan unknown person here on NH-24(he is son of a college owner)..so what will you say about this..A 15 LAC COSTING LAURA BEATING UP A 36 LAC COSTING AUDI A4 2.0(DIESEL OF COURSE)...

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@Durango Dude:

Sorry for getting off-topic but I think I was typing my reply when you posted the warning..and now I have lost my edit button(which I often lose,maybe due to my slow tata photon whiz).

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@Sarabjeet:
I think you have read today's TOI's last page where Audi has mentioned it in bold letters that "We have again won the Le-mans 24 hours with a diesel car".but it really does not have any effect on me because its not the diesel or petrol which wins the race.ITS THE DRIVER WHO RACES AND WINS' date='THE ONLY THING HE NEEDS IS A COMPETITIVE MACHINE,a machine with 90% performance can defeat one with 100% performance only driver needs to be a winner.

I have many times eaten up an Audi 2.0 TDi ofan unknown person here on NH-24(he is son of a college owner)..so what will you say about this..A 15 LAC COSTING LAURA BEATING UP A 36 LAC COSTING AUDI A4 2.0(DIESEL OF COURSE)...[/quote']

 

Nah dude have been following the races. You should watch some video's on youtube.

 

As for you overtalking an Audi. You said it , its the driver. He might be scared to bang his Audi.

 

@DD  Sorry no off-topic posts from now on smiley1.gif
sarabjeet2011-06-15 17:07:17

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@Sarabjeet:

You are right,the driver may be scared of banging his Audi,but when he drives it at 190kph on a four lane highway with mild traffic honking madly,are you sure he is really scared.I once overtook the car at 200kph while driving an Accord V6....I really can't believe your words,nor you can justify them.

I still remember:

Twice with my Laura.

Once with Accord V6.

Four times with Superb V6.

Every time my car crossed 200 mark and the Audi guy never got me in his RVMs but I always got him.(Too much off-topic gone,its over for me now)TSiVipul2011-06-15 17:17:45

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I think the topic has been left far behind and all discussion has gone off in a tangent. I request members to come back to the topic.

Just Spare me once to reply to this post.

yes it is a PSYCHOLOGICAL problem i feel with @VIPUL@DR.NISHU@ both seems to be more tent to petrol cars and still living with older diesel engines the TDI's.

Just mind your words man.

You're at public forum & its better to avoid personal comments here.

Also, Please do try to stay within the rules & regulations of the forum.

We sincerely respect your affection towards the diesel cars & as you recently bought one.

But don't get blown up in the winds of these emotions, even i'm on the verge of buying a New Diesel hatchback(read Hatchback blues thread next to this thtead), TSiVipul also drives a Diesel Innova in addition to Laura TSi petrol but are favouring petrols here only as per their practicality & the thread initiator's demands, his usage with keeping all the facts in mind.

I'm saying again that We're not biased towards anyone only discussing the real facts & parthi witnessed it very well with excellent calculations.

Sarabjeet have also favoured Diesel cars alot as per his experience & have really strengthened my belief towards my upcoming purchase with their pros but my dear this thread initiator(parthi) really needs something different as reflected from his smart-est calculations & you've to admit that.

Over to parthi for further discussions.dr_nishu2011-06-15 18:28:28

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