BonFre

Search ended with India's highest selling car (pg11)

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Since the buy by default - Swift is insanely difficult to procure, Im trying hard to decide on the competition. Now Micra & Figo seem to fit the bill for me.

 

Micra because its lovely, zippy, peppy, comfy, etc & Figo because it does most things the Micra does but at a huge cut price.

 

Now main concern with Micra is Nissan's service standards, spare & service costs. Its still in the unknown territory. Other than this I would be hard pressed to point out a fault in the car. Ofcourse its priced on the higher side but that again is an extrinsic factor.

 

With Figo, Im concerned about the old platform & again Ford's legacy w.r.t. not so great servicing & spares supply & cost.

 

Other than these does something else fall into the bracket? Ive kind off ruled out the i20, Punto, Vista, Beat, etc. These are all great cars but don't somehow fulfill my requirements.

 

Im not yet decided on the Ritz & Fiesta Classic but don't like Rits'z looks & don't either require a saloon.

 

So how do we move on from here..?

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I am a bit unaware about some news on new diesel hatch launch, still I would insist on waiting till the Auto expo.

But if you are in a hurry, as always, Figo is my choice. This car is so much value for money, that I can digest that "old platform" phobia. Ride and handling is top class, which again submerges that platform dilemma. That Titanium version is almost priced as close as the base Micra.

Also among my friends circle, I still did not hear any issues with a Figo diesel and Fords reliability.

Still I can say, that waiting for the expo is a bit wise. Who knows if any surprise is waiting.

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Yes its actually logical to wait till the Expo. but we keep on hearing news on price increase. Thought could save some bucks in a matter of month!

 

Btw what all hatch or 4-8L diesel cars are lined up for release? Apart from Sunny D, Ertiga, etc. Guess an updated i20 & some other mild facelifts could be un-leashed.

 

Please tell me more about user-accounts of Figo owners. Is there any niggle/issue in the car, how's the ownership exp, maintainability, etc?

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@BF

Diesel Micra in my opinion is overpriced. Seeing Sunny's pricing I expect after localisation, its price will come down.

Maruti is going very aggressive with Swift production(>17k this month). It might be a good idea to book it and then wait and see what happens in Expo. Book any color instead of white and by Feb March you have a chance of getting it.

You have rejected the Ritz based on looks, but in my opinion its looks grows on you, and after a while it feels pretty good. I have driven Ritz and the driving a tallboy is pretty nice. White Ritz in particular looks like a mini SUV.

At expo a car to look out for would be Xylo Mini. May not be most refined, but would be a very practical buy.

Ertiga will be another very practical car, 4.2 meters, great for city and highway drives.

My choice would be to keep in touch with Maruti dealer about Ertiga. And also book a Swift in the process. Keeping in touch would help either in getting Swift slightly early, or placing an advanced booking of Ertiga, which would get you a prompt delivery.

If immediate, I would say Figo or Ritz. Purely for resale reason. Micra would depreciate a hell lot faster than Figo. Also it has many unknown variables in it. I am guessing you plan to keep it long term. Dont let a wait of 3-4 months make a decision that won't prevent you from thinking I wish I had brought that car.

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Yes I agree with you, Micra needs price correction.

 

My 1st choice of color in the Swift is White, could choose Silver if wait time reduces!

 

Will be checking Ritz's front seat legroom because last time around when I checked it(if I remember correctly) my knees either fouled with Dash or central consol fall.

 

Im excited about the Xylo mini but guess a 3cyl unit from MM would take some big-time getting used to!

 

Ertiga could well turn out to be the dark horse here. Will be keen to know its FE, hope doesn't emulate Innova on this. Would just book one car, either Swift or Ertiga but later still in unchartered waters!

 

Even after the new launches at the expo, guess Figo will still remain the price champ. So not much to loose if I end up with it. In terms of new tech. ofcourse a new car will be well advanced.

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The only problem with Figo is its ground clearance, with 4 occupants in the car it scraps every speed breaker (every occupants ~70kg)

On the other hand i loved Nissan Micra, but found the suspensions to be a tad bouncy which can be rectified by some Tyre upgrade.

Why don't you look at this ?

pBEs3l.jpg

Pulse with body kit looks stunning.

sarabjeet2011-12-03 04:43:46

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@BornFree

You haven't mentioned about the budget but i think you are looking for a diesel hatch (not a sedan or a MPV).

Considering this, as mentioned by rahul you can book a swift and wait for the auto expo to see if any better option arises.

Swift diesel (specially white color) is still having a 8-9 month waiting period.

Also, Ertiga being a MPV would start from 7.5 lacs plus for diesel which i don't think meets your requirements.

Other option of Figo is anyway always open for you..

 

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@BF: Swift it is. Others are a compromise. 'Savour' the pleasure of a long wait and since you already have rides and its not your first, I'd suggest you wait. I have seen Swift (new) in white and it looks good, especially the taillights look gorgeous. Whats it gonna be: ZXI?Durango Dude2011-12-03 12:26:59

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@BF: Swift it is. Others are a compromise. 'Savour' the pleasure of a long wait and since you already have rides and its not your first' date=' I'd suggest you wait. I have seen Swift (new) in white and it looks good, especially the taillights look gorgeous. Whats it gonna be: ZXI?[/quote']

@DD

I guess it is going to be a ZDi as he is in search of diesel.

Apart from the price hike, I have another query. If the car is booked now, and say BF gets the car delivered in Feb/March, then will it be a Nov/Dec'11 car or a new Jan12 car?

In case of the first possibility, he will loose a year of Mfg. So will it not cause any resale hit say after 6/7 years? Just curious.

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Even If BF books it today, and assume he gets it by Feb-March, it should be a Jan-Feb made car, so he need not worry about mfg year.

@SB

Only Fiat buyers or those kind of buyers need to worry about date 'n year. Swift doesn't have any backlog.

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Agreed guys but the ~5 months wait for Swift Vdi is shear torture!

Btw, almost booked the Figo Yesterday on Fords unique "celebrations" but then decided to wait for a "go-ahead" from you people. What say?

 

Don't know why, I keep on getting back to Punto every now & then. Guess the enthusiast in me takes me there. Would I do good choosing this Italian-job?

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Remember arkoboypunk, that boy called Arkin has bought a Punto 90HP just a few weeks back. Some ideas can come through that Channel.

Some negatives about the Figo, that I have collected after interrogation are :

1. Bottoming nature at full load in boot and 3 passengers. (what sarabjeet said)

2. Many complain of improper sound insulation for cabin. Also horn is loud inside cabin

3. Headlamps not the best.

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@BF

There are quite a few changes expected at Expo. Ford Ecosport is also expected, and as per reports its website is under construction. 4 meters SUV is worth a look. Then there is also Ertiga. So my opinion will be to have some patience. As I said above, book Swift, make some contact with the sales guy. See if he is able to get you a Swift early. Also keep enquiring about Ertiga, so that you know when its booking start and you can get it quickly.

As DD said, all others are compromise.

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@BF: Have you TDed the Punto? I think had you posted the same on TBHP you would have 'tonnes' of support, I half the guys who buy Fiat hangout there. I think if you get a good deal and if the After Sales support is decent,in your part of the country, then go for it. I'd say that you also have a look at the Fabia too as it's got some good deals going and between Fiat and Skoda the After Sales is going to be 'hit' ya 'miss', at least with Fabia you'll get more space and premium feel interior's. I completely agree with sb_alto about the bottoming out on the Figo with full load and lack of premium feel interior's even on the top end and the plum coloured dash is absolute put off. Sensible choices would be the Swift (waitlisted) or Ritz (off the shelf).I know you don't like Hyundai so have completely deleted the i20 from the list. Absolutely, agree with Rahul, that you should wait till the Auto Expo to throw up some fresh surprises and then decide; something like an upgraded diesel engine for the Polo and Fabia.Durango Dude2011-12-05 06:09:07

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Definately Ford.

Nissan started recently & having only 20 dealership in India.No clue on ASS.Also localization content is less in Micra so spare part cost will be more compared to Ford Figo.

Figo engine is more refined than NIssan Micra.Figo Diesel EXI is good buy.IF require Safety features like ABS/EBD,Airbag & Bluetooth Audio,then think of Figo Titanium (Rs 6.2 lakhs approx.)

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@BF;

Out of Figo & Micra, I'd rate a Micra dCi a bit shade better over Figo as;

-Figo is very low slung for a car & can easily bottomed out at speed brakers.

Even today I had a short convo with a Figo Onwer & he also revealed the same thing i.e with even 2 passengers at Rear Seat, it gets easily bottomed out at Speedbrakers at 50kmph+ speeds, whereas he said his previous Alto crossed the same under same conditions untouched.

-I'd rate Interiors of Micra a shade better over Figo.

-Cost cutting is not a part of Micra, whereas Figo is clearly built on Cost-factor.

So long-term reliability will definitely remain a concern.

-Ford TDCi engine is less Refined & Reliable than Nissan-Renault's 1.5 dCi engine. Though the latter is more Noisy but its overall life is almost double as of Ford's.

-FE of Nissan is better than Figo.

So figures & Brain suggests Nissan is a car for you but if you're a Driving freak, than Ford can be a God for you & I'm sure at the end, you'll tend to overlook these shortcomings of Ford for Fun & sheer Driving pleasure.

Other New entrants for Jan2012, including to be unveiled at Auto Expo 2012 are;

-MS Dzire CS.

-MS Ertiga.

-Renault Pulse(=Expensive Nissan Micra)

-Ford EcoSport SUV.

-Mahindra sub 4-metre Xylo.

-Punto face-lift on 3rd, Jan2012.

-Polo 1.5 TDi(very rarely).

-Sunny D coming in March.

-Else there seems to be Rare chance of unveiling of any Diesel hatch.

If you're looking for a New Swift VDi/ZDi, then be ready to wait for atleast 7-8months, as there are 98,000 bookings (=to be delivered) pending in Maruti bag & every dealer in Punjab is already having 1000-2000 bookings as a backlog.

& With Recently Introduced at the Dealer Spot Registration, you've to buy the car from your District region only.

So, practically acquiring New Swift here is a dream, for the moment.

Apart from the price hike' date=' I have another query. If the car is booked now, and say BF gets the car delivered in Feb/March, then will it be a Nov/Dec'11 car or a new Jan12 car? In case of the first possibility, he will loose a year of Mfg. So will it not cause any resale hit say after 6/7 years? Just curious. [/quote']

Everything prevailing at the time of delivery will be noted forever, like Manufacturing date, Invoice date, Registration date & Price.

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-I'd rate Interiors of Micra a shade better over Figo.

-Cost cutting is not a part of Micra' date=' whereas Figo is clearly built on Cost-factor.

[/quote']

Prices are cheaper as well. So cost cutting = less cost. Problem is when same cost but below par quality.

So long-term reliability will definitely remain a concern.

-Ford TDCi engine is less Refined & Reliable than Nissan-Renault's 1.5 dCi engine. Though the latter is more Noisy but its overall life is almost double as of Ford's.

This can be evaluated for a car that is in market for say 6-10 years. How can one say that confidently for a car which is not even an year old.

-FE of Nissan is better than Figo.

For any diesel FE depends a lot on driving. I have come across Punto owners getting 27kmpl to 30kmpl on highways.

-MS Dzire CS.

- Still a long way I guess.

-MS Ertiga.

-- Good but price is still unknown

-Renault Pulse(=Expensive Nissan Micra) -- No A$$ support

-Ford EcoSport SUV.

-- Fiesta diesel is more than 10L. Will a UV be any cheaper?

-Mahindra sub 4-metre Xylo.

-- No driving pleasure that is a characteristics of Hatches

-Punto face-lift on 3rd' date=' Jan2012.

- But improvements only in looks. Not service or engine

-Polo 1.5 TDi(very rarely).

-- Any news ?

-Sunny D coming in March.

-- But Hatch to sedan ? Also price will be high.

-Else there seems to be Rare chance of unveiling of any Diesel hatch.

[/quote']

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Hang-On !! firstly calm down dude, don't get tad offensive.

Prices are cheaper as well. So cost cutting = less cost. Problem is when same cost but below par quality.

Prices are low' date=' thus the quality is.

Quality comes at a price.

Just evaluate Polo, Micra & Figo standing side by side, you'll come across the answer by yourself.

Less Cost cutting =Better Quality =Lesser chances of failure.

I still remember one Honda dealer's saying,'Why do we open up the Service centres at every nook & corner like Maruti Suzuki, considering the capabilities & qualities with which our cars are built, they can easily travel from area of currently located one Service centre to another.

This can be evaluated for a car that is in market for say 6-10 years. How can one say that confidently for a car which is not even an year old.

IIRC, Its more than a year old product in a Market

& its the overall Mileage(kms) figures which can also

make out the Reliability factor for a product.

If not the years, Ford engines are never known to clock more than 1-1.5 lac kms or In other words Ford 1.4 TDCi engine needs a Overhaul at around 1-1.5 lac kms, unlike Maruti/Fiat DDiS or Renault 1.5 dCi engine, which are known to clock 3 lac kms with utmost ease.

Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi engine is the live proof of it.

For various Niggles or else, read Ownership reviews at other forums, to which you're already referred to.

For any diesel FE depends a lot on driving. I have come across Punto owners getting 27kmpl to 30kmpl on highways.

Even Wagon-R delivers 34kmpl but fact is that who's talking about Punto here.

We're talking about Figo & Micra.

Various Ownership threads & my concerning friends are the live proof for the same.

Recent I've heard of the 28kmpl for Micra dCi on exclusive Highway driving.

16 & 20kmpl are the FE figures i've heard for Ford Figo under City & Highway respectively.

-MS Dzire CS.

- Still a long way I guess.

Lets hope' date=' but dealers are ready for it.

-MS Ertiga.

-- Good but price is still unknown

Base Innova starts from Rs.8.5 lacs(Innova Price) & base Aria from 9.99 lacs, where the tiny Ertiga can be priced, you can easily estimate out.

-Renault Pulse(=Expensive Nissan Micra) -- No A$$ support

Not much a matter of concern' date=' since our mod BF, needs a car exclusively for city usage & he already resides in a city, which is having exclusive Renault dealership.

So, Product appeal is preferred, I guess.

-Ford EcoSport SUV.

-- Fiesta diesel is more than 10L. Will a UV be any cheaper?

Its based of Figo platform, is Sub-4 meter in length & as per ACI article its going to be placed in between Fiesta Classic & New Fiesta. Only 1.5 TDCi engine is going to be shared with New Fiesta.

So, 7-9 lacs is the expected price tag for it.

-Punto face-lift on 3rd' date=' Jan2012.

- But improvements only in looks. Not service or engine[/quote']

Punto quality is already at a par with the Industry standard, if not like VW or Skodas'.

Niggles belonged to Pre-2011 Puntos mostly.

& Dealership experience also varies from city to city.

-Polo 1.5 TDi(very rarely).

-- Any news ?

Q1 FY2012 is the most probable launch for it' date=' but its showcasing & preponement of launch can also happen witnessing the Gigantic AE12 event.

55 automobiles launches are scheduled for AE12, as against 50 in AE10.

-Sunny D coming in March.

-- But Hatch to sedan ? Also price will be high.

That's why it's not being considered here.

-Else there seems to be Rare chance of unveiling of any Diesel hatch.

Yes there are..

Its an almost confirmed report(from other auto forum) that Toyota is going to launch Etios & Liva with Upgraded, Re-specced & better quality Interiors. Either its going to be launched before or at AE12.

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Aye, nothing offensive, just that agreement- disagreement factors smiley16.gif.

1. I was talking about the value for money factor.

2. May be, but I did not come across any Dci engine with 3L km ownership but heard a lot about Ford Duratorq in Fiesta, Ikon, fusion and now in figo. None complained about performance or reliability.

3. Actually Punto MJD is considered least efficient even among diesel hatches. So gave the example.

4. Lets see how MSIL prices it, also whether it is as per requirement of BornFree

5. City or Outskirts, A$$ matters. So it is better not to take risk or chances, when reliable ones are available in plenty.

6. I guess it is based on Fiesta (all new) platform and not Figo. We both need to get a second look about this.

7. If Fiat comes up with own Stores as news suggest, the story might be different. Fingers crossed. But results need waiting here.

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R1, yes now I shall be looking at the Expo. Few new launches like Ertiga, Eco-sport, new Punto, etc. hold my interest.

 

DD, I've TD'ed Punto, its typically Fiat, rubbery gearshifts, some poor ergonomics, etc. but what makes a case in its favour is its superb looks. Too concerned about Fiats a.s.s & spares costs. No Fabia in the list. Btw, Punto's GC is not so great, I managed to scrape it more than a couple of times during a short TD.

 

Nish, Micra certainly trumps Figo but not so much when it comes to GC. The Micra I tried, scrapped its belly pretty easily. Still GC is not going to be a make or break factor for me because only the front 2 seats are going to used more often.

 

When I tried the Figo, I was very impressed with the way it drives. Outside view is superb, judjement is spot on & I couldn't spot many downsides. With the Micra, its pick-up really impresses.

 

Thats a cool Expo launch list you've gathered, what excites me: Eco-sport, Ertiga, Punto, Xylo-mini, new Innova, Sunny D(but I don't want to end up with a sedan).

 

As much I love the Swift, I hate the looong wait. Though wise to book but Im not doing that.

 

Coming to cost-cutting, Figo though is an old platform but for the price it retails, I guess a Company can't give more. Micra is a whole lot costlier & is supposed to possess that premium feel. I may be mistaken but think ABS has been given a miss.

 

One thing for sure, I won't buy your equasion: "Prices are low, thus the quality is". There are countless egs. & you would know more where heavily priced cars are low on quality. & could not understand the dealer quote!

 

While I quite agree you on Ford's reliability part. I own an Ikon & stand a testimony to it. By gawd, the car costs a bomb to run & maintian. Though those were old days & have heard of Ford improving with times. The question though is by what margin & how much! On the other hand, I feel Micra still has to prove itself, more so Nissan actually. Im still waiting to see long-term reports of Nissan products.

 

On usage, yes I shall be primarily using the car for in-City use but won't rule out occassional highways & for those "occassiona;" runs too, I won't take a handicapped car. Other wise if it were for solo City use, I would've ended up with Beat D & thus saving my funds.

 

Also from what I've heard, the Eco-sport would be based on the Fiesta platform, current or old. No way can it be based on the Figo. If not so, its so out of my list already.

 

We still keep hearing stories of neglect form Punto owners! Fiat still gotta go a long way! That's what is keeping me away, otherwise Punto is my no. 1 choice.

 

Im not in the line for Polo D anyways.

 

Toyota tweaking the Liva so early is good news. If an improved Liva comes in the Expo, I might just end up with it!
BornFree2011-12-07 19:22:08

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So figures & Brain suggests Nissan is a car for you but if you're a Driving freak, than Ford can be a God for you & I'm sure at the end, you'll tend to overlook these shortcomings of Ford for Fun & sheer Driving pleasure.

I'll still love to stick to my previously said comments & this will make you decide easily if the war is only between Micra & Figo.

One thing for sure' date=' I won't buy your equasion: "Prices are low, thus the quality is". There are countless egs. & you would know more where heavily priced cars are low on quality. & could not understand the dealer quote!
[/quote'] I'm re-writing my previous post content here;

Prices are low' date=' thus the quality is.

Quality comes at a price.

Just evaluate Polo, Micra & Figo standing side by side, you'll come across the answer by yourself.[/quote']

For the sake of Simplicity, this can be understood by taking the example of cars belonging to a same segment(say 5-7 lac), as I've taken above the example of Polo, Micra & Figo

hatchbacks, they both belongs to same segment though Pricing plays a critical role for the type & Quality of equipment they feature.

So, within same segment it can be safely assumed that More Pricing= Better Quality & vice versa.

Though those were old days & have heard of Ford improving with times. The question though is by what margin & how much!

Ford is much improved than before with recently adopted Child parts strategy & better volumes. But Ford's long term Reliability is still Suspicious.

On usage' date=' yes I shall be primarily using the car for in-City use but won't rule out occassional highways & for those "occassiona;" runs too, I won't take a handicapped car. Other wise if it were for solo City use,

[/quote']

Nissan AfSS isn't that much bad either here.

In Punjab, Nissan has good hold in both Dealer & Service Network & is at par with Volkswagen, Skoda & Chevrolet.

Its having presence in 5 major cities; Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana, Patiala & Chandigarh.

Roadside assistance is also provided by these dealers. So, its not a matter of worry for Nissan owners here.

So, If Nissan is your choice, then it can be a good bet here, as its now 2nd next car preferred to Swift Diesel here.

Toyota tweaking the Liva so early is good news. If an improved Liva comes in the Expo' date=' I might just end up with it!
[/quote']

Seems to be almost sure-shot news, by the way its circulated across the Auto forums & the type of response Toyota have got from their Initial market figures.

Though it helped Toyota to gain more volumes but not as they expected while developing Etios.dr_nishu2011-12-11 19:08:37

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Since Sunny D have suddenly & silently made its entry into our Market & at Shockingly High beginning price.

Dzire CS is also coming by Feb 2012.

How's your car decision is Shaping up now ??

with these news.

Btw, One of my Uncle in Delhi have recently bought Etios sedan VX-D variant & he's quite impressed with its Initial ownership experience sans the Initially reported Niggles.

Will try to extract some more Info from him, as he clocks more & more Miles.

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Nish, on "More Price = More Quality", I still won't agree. Even within the segment, Micra is quite highly priced but the quality/features don't top the charts. With Polo, higher price does not bring in more features & neither does the 3-cyl engine does justice. Case with Liva is even worse, Toyota is demanding premium & only premium for its sparcely decorated car. So high price entirely is not translating into better quality overall. While ideally it should have been the case but our market is still in a stage where companies demand a premium for their below par products.

 

Thanks fo rreminding me about the Ford's "child parts" policy. Yes that should have made a change.

 

I do like the Micra & dealerships in State also help but Im still concerned about the long term maintainability & reliability. Some long term customer reviews will help a lot.

 

An improved Liva, if it comes across in the Expo, I could be game for it.

 

Sunny D was in my list till its expected price was ~6.5-6.75L. The announced priceing has entirely taken ot off my list!

 

Desire Cs could be worth waiting for but Ertiga holds my interest more than others.

 

Yes do extract whatever you can about Etios, Livas ownership exp. should be similar. Did he face the commonly reported issues?

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Nish' date=' on "More Price = More Quality", I still won't agree.[/quote']

Still to simplify it further, just compare Micra vis Figo vs Liva;

i20 against Swift against Polo.

This will help you to clarify the doubts.

Anyways leave this & while coming to the point;       

Yes do extract whatever you can about Etios' date=' Livas ownership exp. should be similar. Did he face the commonly reported issues?
[/quote']

Still no Niggles reported so far.

Since he's quite far from my place, so can't figure out the exact status of the car. But as soon as i'll get the time, i'll definitely extract some more info about the car.

IMHO, Liva base Diesel with ABS at Rs.5.55 lacs is a Steal in our market.

As per my basket of preferred needs, it lacks Tachometer, Rear defogger or Wash wipe(any one).

Else its almost a complete package with AC, EPS, All Power windows, Remote Central locking, Wheel caps, Body coloured door handles-mirrors & most importantly ABS.

Music System retrofit is a better option, than Toyota's boring & flimsy looking stock MP3 player, as available in in its higher Petrol variants.

Waiting for New Liva till Auto Expo 2012 does makes a sense too, since its not too far away now or Toyota might launch it a bit earlier too, as Nissan launched Sunny almost a month before the event.

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