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@BornFree

Do you really need a people mover ? What will be the actual purpose of the car ? Is this replacing any old car ?

If you really need a big one, innova is a reasonable choice, sunny is more for back seat comfort, and figo is for driving pleasure and the utility of a hatch in crowded places.

To me, its between the figo and innova.

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Go for Sunny. It is the best choice in these times. IT has been selling very well (3130 last month). The maintenance cost reported on Micra seem alright and given the no of parts shared between Sunny and Micra, it shouldnt be too much for Sunny either.

Go for the base variant. The 80k difference between XL and XV is too big for just alloys, fogs and some other cosmetic features. But keep in mind that its demand is steadily increasing, so waiting periods may soon start to baloon.

PS: The Sunny colour you have chosen is my favourite! But also have a look at the white onesmiley1.gifrahul18102012-03-02 18:21:36

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For both its Users & Manufacturers, Hatchbacks(Small, medium & Premium segment) does makes alot of sense these days, thanks to exponentially growing Road Traffic, Congestion & increasing Multiple type of usage.

BF, as per you specified above, both Sunny & Innova are Good cars & infact are the best amongst their segments.

But the Real fact is that, after buying either of these cars you'll always feel the need for a Small Hatchback, for Easy, light of Evening City commute in Trafficky areas.

So, the answer lies in the simple fact above, that if you're already having a Hatchback in your house for such usage, then you can go for either of these. Else go for a Diesel Hatchback as you've already Shortlisted ones above.

& Amongst hatchbacks, if you're not Interested in LIVA, then go for Renault Pulse or Nissan Micra, as against Figo as the latter are Better built with better quality, Having better features, Better Brand Value, More fuel efficient & are more Reliable too.

Don't worry about Nissan or Renault's AfSS, as both these companies are very rapidly expanding in Punjab, Haryana & Chandigarh. They've really strong presence in the latter, with dealership count same as VW, Skoda, Honda, Toyota, etc.

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Goenka, not keen on old shape Innova.

 

Sstar, yes Sunny is up there on the list. Im wary of Nissans a.s.s, parts prices/availability.

 

Sb, No actually it would be me who would be driving most of the time. Just keen on the Innova for being high, like space/versatality & being Toyota! Though I don't see the utility of 8 seats to me.

Regarding Figo, it would cost me ~6L, feel its too much for a small hatch, stretch a bit & get a decent saloon. I don't have a good hatch with me though, can always buy a 2nd hand petrol hatch later for <2L later.

 

R1, yes saw those Sunny figures, ~3k is good. Im keen on basic model moreso becasue it doesn't have that push-button start. Don't know how true but I've heard that parts for Micra expensive & availability is an issue. Also not keen on push-button because have heard that it malfunctions & setting right costs heavy.

 

I know that beige color looks smashing, in solid colors the car doesn't look great.

 

What's the current staus of Ertiga, a car you've been suggesting all along! Any chances before budget effect?

 

Nish, Yes htches make a lot of sense in these days of worsening traffic. Thought about this aspect, what also remains a fact is that I have ample parking space for > 20 cars. The road(GT/Mahavir marg) in front of my house is double & >100ft.(each side) wide. In this scenario, the biggest of the cars can fit easily. Problem arises when I have to go to other congested areas, roads are narrow, parking is a pain & traffic maddening.

 

I wanted to get a hatch but as already mentioned these cost ~6L, add another couple & get a proper saloon. A hatch <4L makes sense to me, not any more.

Was getting Liva but on 2nd thoughts found the interiors so darn poor that spending time in that hatch would be a tough call. Considering that I would be spending a lot of time in a diesel car.

 

Pulse struck a cord with me but don't have a dealership locally, will have to travel to your City every-time(for now atleast) & Renault's a.s.s & costs are un-known. If they turn up high later, Im grilled! Basically I want to play safe with my money, not willing to play a gamble.

 

I like Micra but similar concerns as with Sunny. Now Figo has been running for long & everything about it is known. 

 

Don't know why I keep on going back to Scorp! Its reliable & can withstand some abuse. Btw, does its base Lx model have a taxi image? Asking this because don't want to be flagged at each & every checkpost!
BornFree2012-03-03 03:32:31

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@BF

Hormazd tweeted 2 days back of 3rd week launch of Ertiga. BY my guess bookings should have started. Enquire at the dealer.

I know you have long settled the Petrol vs diesel debate, but have a look at my point of view below. Considering you go for Nissan Sunny, an equivalent car would be Honda Jazz. I know its a hatch, but considering the comfort and premium on offering, I think we can call it equivalent. Honda Jazz Select, costs 2 lakhs less than Nissan Sunny.

Instead of spending 2 lakhs extra on the car, if you put it in FD for 5 years at 9.50% p.a. you will get nearly 20k interest every year around 1800 per month.

Now come to monthly expenditure. For 1300-1400 km running, if Nissan Sunny gave 20 kmpl average, you will have an expenditure of 3200 per month. On Honda Jazz with 16 kmpl average it will be 6200 per month. 3000 Rs difference, for 60 months takes the figure to 1.8 lakhs in 5 years. If you go for Honda Jazz, then you would have saved 20k + the 1 lakh interest you would have gained on it. Total savings will be 1.2 lakhs! Over this add the extra service cost you would incur while service of a diesel car. Yes the price difference between Petrol and diesel would not always remain the same, but the difference now wont increase a lot else it would become unviable to refine them together. And anyways however it may be, for you to lose out by buying Honda Jazz, the difference between your monthly petrol diesel expenditure would need to be 5000. That means difference of nearly 50 Rs on petrol and diesel prices. And this difference will have to be continuous, because any month the difference is less than 5000, you gain. Also factoring the surity provided by Honda, against the uncertainity of Nissan, its resale, and the money you will be saving on EMI, the comfort of a hatchback, this deal looks even more sweeter.

Dont shut a blind eye on a car just because it is a petrol, it may be matching your requirements better than the diesel car which you are looking at, costing 2 lakhs more.

Another thing I can assure you, manufacturers will do something to cover up the 80000 Rs diesel tax should it come, else as a knee jerk reaction there will be mass cancellations all over the country! Maruti has received over 1.5 lakh booking for Swift. By my guess 1 lakh of them would be Diesel. I can assure you, 70000 of them will cancel as soon as they come to know that they need to pay 80k extra. Manufacturers like Maruti who now have capacity of 4 lakh diesel engines will lose out on their investments if diesel cars stopped selling. Other like Mahindra and Tata stand to lose over 80% of there market share.

I will conclude with these points

1. Just for the sake of diesel, don't go to that level, where you start ignoring cars just because they are petrol!

2. Do not be in a hurry and settle for a car, not very much to your liking, because you will have to live with this decision for the next 5 years.

If I were in your place, I will do the following.

1. Book a Honda Jazz, and wait for the budget.

2. If the 80k tax is not announced, think about it and book Swift Diesel, because it is the car that has been your first choice, and the one that you have dreamt of owning.

3. Have a look at the Ertiga prices once they are out.

I hope the above topic was of at least some help. smiley1.gif

@sb-alto

Optra production has been limited to 50 units a month in Halol plat, according to my friend who works there. I would definitely not be going for that car.

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R1, Agreed on your POV & calculations. Factor in that I already own 4 petrol cars, there's no room for another petrol. Atleast one diesel has to be there. Im not going back on this, NO Diesel = NO car. Im in the market for a diesel only.

 

Your reasoning on price hike holds good but that's what the Govts. objective is, limit diesel vehicle sales to Private owners & if someone has to buy, pay upfront & then enjoy cheaper fuel. Inc. diesel price will lead to inflation across the board whereas car prices will only impact car sales.

 

Govt. has borrowed this strategy from Auto companies only who charge a premium on diesel cars over similar petrol variants. Development costs, etc. are almost same. Now if Govt. inc. taxes, sales are affected, companies have an option to reduce their fat profit margins. Therefore overall impact may be lowered but some hike will still remain. Now this is all imagination, what's going to happen on ground, will only become evident in times to come. On a positive note, if reports are to be belived, there's going to be a hike, quantum is unknown but presumed to be heavy. If someone wants to play it safe, only a little time is left. I guess if the said hike takes places, I shall be out of the race. So, this is the time for me to make a purchase.

 

Guess you missed, I have already booked a Swift diesel & am keen on Ertiga too. Do let me know when you come to know about bookings start.

 

Sb, No Optra fo rme!

 

 

Btw, Pulse seems to be an exciting option too.

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In that case, go for Sunny. Ask the dealer for the parts price list. As Nissan sales are high in you area, I am guessing parts availability will not be much of an issue.

I think booking must have started for Ertiga by now, given that Hormazd is saying of March 3rd week launch. Keep pestering the dealer for info, I dont think there is any other way of getting more info. smiley2.gif

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I think that the nissan sunny is a great bet because of its long wheelbase the interior space available is awesome for its segment and above it . The increase in the power is welcome and with the lower weight the sunny is surprisingly good in the city . The brakes are poor though but then this car was designed for chauffer driven and I can see many sunny nowadays in Mumbai . The XL varient hits the sweet point with a price of 8.8 lakhs on road mumbai with ABS and airbags its make the deal sweet . On the XV one only gets cosmetic mods which car be added later aftermarket .

 

Also the new Innova has a waiting of 3 months in Mumbai surrently for the G varient and 1.5 for the V varient .

 

Why don't you book the Ertiga before launch because anyways its going to have a big waiting when the official pricing is revealed ? It will cut the waiting period significantly .

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@BF

Any updates. I think you should book the Sunny, which most probably wont be delivered by 15th, see what happens in the budget and then decide if you want to keep the booking or not.

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@BF,

Do book a Ertiga( if booking started) and also book a Sunny. As long as M&M & Tata are there, govt wont crush the home market for those mere 2% consumption. So IMHO, the budget's Diesel car price rise would be marginal only.

IMHO, Ertiga fares better due to following reasons,

1. MJD vs old gen Renault engine( I've seen Logans clattering too much)

2. Its a Maruti, so no problem for AfSS, spares, low cost maintenance

3. Ease of riding

4. Ability to carry Extra load/ persons

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After evaluating most cars, its finally between:

Hatches; Figo or Micra

 

Sedans; Rapid or Sunny

 

Concern's with each car:

 

Figo: long term reliability, a.s.s. & spares costs.

 

Micra/Sunny: Long term reliability, a.s.s & spares availability & costs.

 

Rapid: a.s.s, spares costs & availability.

 

Something noteworthy, most concerns are shared but that's the story. About Nissan, we don't know how they are going to fare in future & Skoda's dealings are known to all! Ford again hasn't been able to re-affirm 100% customer faith.

 

 

Thread title edited.
BornFree2012-03-07 15:44:08

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After evaluating most cars' date=' its finally between:

Hatches; Figo or Micra

 

Sedans; Rapid or Sunny

 
[/quote']

 

My voice is for Nissan product. Reasons:

 

For Hatch:

  1. Micra diesel engine is more modern and robost than Figo's
  2. Overall, FE of Micra is higher than Figo
  3. Fit and Finish is better is Micra than Figo
  4. Features too higher on Micra.
  5. Micra GC than Figo GC.

 

Only thing about Micra is - price. But as it is not a worry for you then you should go with Micra. As far as A.S.S & Spares are concerned...I guess Ford and Nissan will both be same (+/- 10%) deviation should be acceptable.


For Sedan:

This is a tough call as Rapid is driver's delight and Sunny is spaciousest in its class. Rapid is newest whereas Sunny is globally proven. Sunny has better safety features even in base but I am not sure if same applies to Rapid also.

But as far as A.S.S & Spares are concerned...I guess both companies would be having same network size but Skoda spares would be costlier than to Nissan.

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In lieu of mine & yours purchase, I got the thought to check out few cars & somehow managed to Test Drive 3-4 cars a day ago & the Shootout was between;

Renault Pulse vs Nissan Micra vs New Swift Dzire vs Ford Figo.

My Observations were;

-Renault Pulse 1.5 RxZ dCi

(Odo-reading ~4200kms)

Pros:

-Good Masculine looks, especially its front Chin-section looks(at least IMHO).

-Better NVH levels than Micra dCi, Exceptionally Silent & Supple Suspension for a Hatchback(for the 1st time I came across a car which is VW beater on Suspension & yes its better than Polo in Suspension).

-Balanced & Comfy Ride.

-Strong Acceleration with wide Torque band.

-Good all-round Attention to detail.

-Good feature distribution amongst different variants.

Cons:

-Missing ABS, even on top-end variant.

-Fabric Door trims missing on Rear doors(even on top-end variant). Only Renault-Nissan knows that how many bucks they've saved by not using 40x30cm of Cloth lining.

Overall, this reduces the Elegance quotient inside the cabin.

Nissan Micra 1.5 dCi XV:

(Odo reading ~34300kms)

Pros:

-Fresh & well contoured looks.

-Good Suspension viz competition, but Pulse still has the edge.

-Greige Interiors on both Diesel variants.

-Start-Stop button even on the base Diesel variant.

-Good feature distribution amongst different variants.

-Good Inside Space Management.

Cons:

-NVH levels doesn't goes well with the Cute character of the car & are bit on the higher side as its sibling Renault Pulse.

-Missing ABS & Driver side Airbag, even on top-end variant.

-Fabric Door trims missing on Rear doors(even on top-end variant). Only Renault-Nissan knows that how many bucks they've saved by not using 40x30cm of Cloth lining.

Overall, this reduces the Elegance quotient inside the cabin.

Maruti Suzuki Swift Dzire 1.2 VVT Petrol

(Odo reading ~2000kms)

Since New Dzire Diesel isn't available at any MS dealership for TD, so tried Petrol one to check out the characteristics of it.

Pros:

-Fresh & more balanced looks as against Old Dzire & Manza.

-Elegant looking Dual-tone Black-Beige Interiors.

-Huge equipment list in top-end ZXi/ZDi variant.

-Comfortable seating & Driving Position.

-Superb ICE as offered an OEM unit.

-Taut n Super Stiff Chassis with Supple Ride & Rally based

Suspension. Its so addiciting that Un-experienced rider will love to dart it into every nook & corner of the road.

-Straight line stability & its Swift-ness is Impressive.

One can rarely notice 110kmph while on the straight road stretch.

-Ride, Handling & Stability is more balanced than New Swift & Rear bounce is even less than New Swift.

-Now comes the much Criticised part,

'The Brakes', I've tried this at all Speeds(from 20-120kmph) & they were very Immeadiate & Confidence Inspiring, almost 'FIAT-like'.

Full marks for Brakes of ZXi/ZDi variants.

Cons:

-Average Road Noise In-cabin Insulation(can either be a Pro or a Con).

-Entry to the Rear Seat is a bit tricky due to angled & sharply tapered C-pillar.

Ford Figo 1.4 TDCi TITANIUM:

(Odo reading ~14000kms)

Pros:

-Spacious car with High Space to Price ratio.

-Ford's Driver appeal is there, but if we compare it with i10 or Beat but the above stated cars are really a Step bigger than it. So straight down comparison seems to be a unfair.

-Good Equipment list.

-Bluetooth connectivity.

-Not so High Ownership costs, known till to date.

-Excellent Warranty coverage i.e. 2 years or 1,00,000kms whichever is earlier & can be extended to 3-years of 1,20,000kms.

Cons:

-Dated looks.

-Average Overall Quality & Interior Ambience.

-High NVH levels.

-Engine performance not in the league of Nissan-Renault 1.5 of MS 1.3 DDiS engine.

-Low Ride height, which makes you feel very close to the road. No, I'm not referring it to Lambo or Ferrari-like, infact for a traffic like here, we need a car with better Ride height.

My Verdict:

MS Swift/Dzire >Renault Pulse D >Nissan Micra D >Ford Figo TDCi.

Hope this l'll bit of Info will help you in smoothening out yours decision process.

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After evaluating most cars' date=' its finally between:

Hatches; Figo or Micra

?

Sedans; Rapid or Sunny

?

[/quote']

Amongst Hatchback, Micra is best amongst these duo, as i told above.

Go for Sedans if you drive on Highways alot else, it doesn't makes much sense to have a Gigantic car on puny & trafficky City roads.

My Vote goes to Skoda Rapid for a sedan, as it looks like a Proper Sedan unlike 'Tunnel-like' long & narrow Sunny.

Plus its having Luxury & Elegance attached with it.

Though its Services maybe a bit expensive over Sunny but it can cover it up with its long Service Intervals of 15k kms & High FE of ~22kmpl+ on Highways.

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Figo has a lot going against it, especially the service cost and the quality department.

My vote goes to Nissan Sunny. Most practical car, with all the features expected, and a far greater value for money than any of the other cars listed. As of now, i.e. before Ertiga arrival, I feel Nissan Sunny is the diesel king of 6-8 lakh bracket, an all rounder. The diesel engine has proven itself in Micra and Logan. Also I believe parts wont be very costly, as one can expect Renault Duster to share quite a few mechanicals with Sunny, hence lowering the cost further.

Also regarding Renault, I can feel that it wont be very successful as it is trying to attain a premium position over Nissan, which it just doesn't have

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I would choose a sedan to hatch. If it is a sedan, Rapid would be my heart car, and Sunny the head. Rapid looks and feels a lot better in quality and manners but sunny is more value for money.

After sales service of all the manufacturers listed above are either a hit or miss. Skoda spares are costly and resale is not as good.

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Go for the Rapid Ambition if you are going to drive for more than 50% otherwise the Sunny XL fits the bill perfectly . Once again don't overthink your decision nowadays no car is bad or good its just which ones suit you more.

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@BF so any updates on the booking. Below information may interest you vaguely.

My Maruti service center guy claims starting price of 6.2-6.4 lakhs for the Petrol LXI. I guess add around 80k-1 lakh for the diesel. That takes the pricing to 7-7.2 for LDI.

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No bookings so far, guess its going to be a frantic buy depending on whats available at that point of time.

Btw budget affect will be from 16th March or 1st April?

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Budget will be in effect from April 1' date=' the new Financial year.[/quote'] But the Excise hike will be effective from the date of budget itself. To get benefit of pre revised prices car should be billed on or before the date of budget announcement. Technically cars shipped from the factory till the date of announcement should get the benefit but in India people don't miss a opportunity to cash. So practically dealers start charging the hiked price from the date of announcement on those cars also which is already at dealer stockyard and brought at pre revised price.

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@ashikawa

It won't be. The budget announcement is just that. Before implementation it is debated upon. Also I dont think dealer will get to benefit much as manufacturer also receives the receipt and will check at what sum the dealer has sold, and will follow it up.

Also if they do implement from 16 March, then they will get to see the knee-jerk mass cancellations of diesel. Generally they give atleast 2 weeks period, and never do I remember an overnight hike being announced. They generally postpone it and tell those who have already booked that a hike will be in effect from certain date.

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No bookings so far' date=' guess its going to be a frantic buy depending on whats available at that point of time.

Btw budget affect will be from 16th March or 1st April?[/quote']

 

 

Hey BornFree...would you share why are you still not going ahead of booking considering your interest is strong enough for the new car? I dont think you are merely waiting just to see price hike in this budget.

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