Gurkha

Most dependable cars

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FRG I think you are very wrong as far as Japanese build quality is concerned dont tell me you prefer the Tatas with their truck like feeling and truck like weight

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Jap cars give the least trouble whilst the German cars are the most durable. Jap cars are made for consumers whilst the European cars are made by engineers. which one would I go for? German cars for sure. BMWs, Mercs and Audis give a driving experience few Japanese cars can match. However, it might mean huge service costs and the odd break down but I am willing to pay that price for brilliant engineering

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There is no tinny feel in Japanese cars, thats a perception, years back when I took my Mercedes to the body shop for repairs in NY, I asked the tech there if MB used special sheet metal, he laughed and took out his verniers and then measured my sheet against an Cressida there, guess what, both measured the same, if you call Land Cruiser tinny, guess what, Hummer is plastic then.

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True 325i but I have to put mercedes rather low in the category as far as Indian conditions performance reliability is not what you would expect and I would put that down to poor tropicalization far too many of the 124 and 203 series have given problems not at all befitting of a marque like MB

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Also forgot to mention that Merc tends to overengineer for lack of a better word I dont remember how many overvoltage protection relays I have changed because they got faulty and not a single case of overvoltage has ever happened so in my opinion trying to protect against a scenario that is very unlikely and receive more expensive problems from the component that is meant to protect I think I almost tied myself into a knot here 

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Let me rephrase myself. I didnt mean all Japanese cars are tinny. But thats the general feel with the cars here in India. But I do love their engines. New Honda City (NHC) does take care of a lot of issues though and is one of the best mid size cars available in the market today.

 

And Tatas, I agree their cars need to go on a serious diet. But I bought a Tata because of their value-for-money appeal and nothing else.

 

FRG

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When I made the transition to buy Japanese after years of keeping US and German cars, my first test drive in the showroom turned to a joke, I pressed the clutch and thought it was dead, turns out I was used to the heavy feel of my German and US made cars and it was quite a hoot. Lexus, Infinity, Land Cruiser, Nissan Patrol all feel far more solid than their over priced German counterparts and outlast them as well.

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My experience with German cars has been quite different. True, they have given me trouble and cost a bomb to maintain but check the door shut or the squeaks and rattles in say an Accord after 7 years on Indian roads and then in a VW Passat or even an Octavia (am assuming the Octy to German because of its VW parentage) of a similar age and in most cases the VW will feel the better for wear. The fact is that Japanese car makers dont engineer their cars to last for centuries (as this adds cost, weight and hence fuel consumption). Its just that they run flawlessly for beyond the period most owners would keep their cars.

 

Closer to home check out the Palio with say 40k on the clock. the body still feels incredibly stiff and the suspension solid too. A Zen of similar vintage will be rattling louder than a nest full of rattle snakes but the difference is that the Zen will have been more reliable and cheaper to maintain!

 

Solid build and reliability are not always the same thing.
325i2007-08-18 10:27:36

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Sort of true though give me a zen instead of a Palio any day in my opinion Fiat seem to take a part from here take a part from there and throw together a car which makes it a nightmare to work on. To change a belt on the Uno S would take more than an hour on a Zen less than 5 minutes. In less than 2 weeks of buying a new Uno S had to take it back as the rear brakes would jam and lock, caused by negligence during assembly. In my a mechanics opinion I would place Fiat slightly above the Tatas and I think this was sort of supported by the JD Power study. I would rate Honda as the best car to work on.

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I can show you myriads of registered Toyota, Honda and Subaru on road in US, I can show you Toyota Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrol regularly being run in the hard and rocky bush country in Australia for the last 30 years and still going strong, its just a myth, I owned both German and Japanese, my Accord today has 525000 miles on clock and still going strong, sure it has few rattles here and there but so does my W123 300D TD.

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Just wanted to add that the 300D TD has around 186000 miles, way less than the Accord and if you are talking about Palio, the engine comes apart by 60,000 miles tops, most of my friends Palios here have started rattling, lots of nagging electrical problems, gearbox problems, OTOH, there is a Zen which has done 200,000km+ as well as a Esteem with 274000km, both are still running. If you look at Consumer Reports rating on long term durability, you will invariably majority of Japanese brands on top, drive a Land Cruiser and tell me it doesnt feel like a tank, same with Lexus LS400, Top Gear did a good test, they bought equal mileage and vintage second hand Lexus LS400 and a S class Mercedes, guess what, the MB had way more rattles and trim failures than the Lexus, need some more reassurance on so called German quality, check out www.lemonmb.com as well as www.myvwlemon.com and check out how good the Skoda/VW Passat engine is rated, apart from CRs low rating.

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Gurkha tell me which Japanese cars in India come anywhere near to those mentioned in this thread.

 

The Zens and Esteems with such high mileage arent really unusual. Their engines may still be running nicely but everything generally at that point is falling apart.

 

I agree Japanese know how to build good engines. But their cars atleast in India can be better overall.\

 

FRG

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I would agree to you to an extent when it comes to present crop of Maruti cars, but I can show you the original Japanese Suzuli 800 and Gypsies still running strong even after all these years, also take a look around and you will see ancient Isuzu Gemini, Aska, Nissan Sunny, Datsun Bluebird, Toyota Cressida, all over 30 years old running around the capital and elsewhere, it was a rumor spread by non Japanese car manufacturers, particularly the US ones when their behinds were getting whupped on sales in US. As I said, take an equal vintage Lexus and MB, both with proper maintanence and you will see that the Lexus will win in terms of quality.

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I would agree to you to an extent when it comes to present crop of Maruti cars' date=' but I can show you the original Japanese Suzuki 800 and Gypsies still running strong even after all these years, also take a look around and you will see ancient Isuzu Gemini, Aska, Nissan Sunny, Datsun Bluebird, Toyota Cressida, all over 30 years old running around the capital and elsewhere, it was a rumor spread by non Japanese car manufacturers, particularly the US ones when their behinds were getting whupped on sales in US. As I said, take an equal vintage Lexus and MB, both with proper maintanence and you will see that the Lexus will win in terms of quality.[/quote']

 

I agree on the old original suzukis, but only on the engines. Also agreed on Gemini, Sunny. Have seen these examples myself. But then these werent sold in India. The Japanese cars in India still have some way to go. The NHC is quite nice though.

 

FRG

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Nowadays there are options and brand images - I was shopping for a SUV and started off from scratch. I had heard so much about X5, Cayenne, Touareg and Q7 (all Germans) I finally decided to do a research from scratch and even added the MB M class and Land Rover to my list. I wanted to be noticed also and happy at the same time. I did not need to use my SUV for cornering or did not need to drive it too fast. I wanted to make my family comfortable when I would be driving with them to Leh or Bandavgarh and as my family consists of only girls (wifey and daughters with loads of luggage) I needed a reliable and spacious SUV - did not want to end up middle of a gushing stream in Corbett. Guess what !!!! I ended up buying a LAND CRUISER which was not even in my first or second list. I always thought it had become very long in the tooth and in India they only have the petrol version which came with an auto box (which drinks like a fighter jet) but I am so happy. There are just no issues - it is more than 8 months now with 20000 on the odo and I even took it to Leh, Bharatpur, Kota & Bundi in these months.

I am a fan of German cars too but just could not fall in love with any of the SUVs mentioned above. The closest I went was to the Land Rover but LAND CRUISER won the battle on the following grounds - dependability / reliability / user friendly / service back-up.

The Germans are still following up and they hope one of these days I might end up buying one of their SAVs (as they are too chic to call it a SUV) but I think I will keep the Land Cruiser till the world runs out of petrol. The auto is like a dream (imagine the auto box of the Accord in a SUV) and the vehicle seems bullet-proof. The plastics and leather are top-notch too.

I have been driving quite fast at times too and it is a fantastic cruiser. At high speeds and on bad roads there are just no noises - it is like a cabin of a jet and is still fresh after so many months.

I have fallen in love all over again with the Japs. At least for SUVs I would like to say the jap SUVs do what they are supposed to do with a very high sense of reliability and dependability.    

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carzfreak,

Good choice, the one and only SUV/4WD to make it to top ten of Consumer Reports and that too for six times a row is the Land Cruiser, there is nothing made to match it in any aspects period except for the Gelande Wagen but then even the mighty G is not that reliable except for G460/461 series diesels, fantastic off road performance notwithstanding.

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The Japanese are the ones that  know consumer durables best

German cars are the best - but not for efficeicncy or reliability

 

the french and italians have fantastic flair and character

 

it all depends on what you want

 

ice cream won't do when you're hungry for a burger

 

RIGHT ?

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