sudeepd

Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears?

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The below link says Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears

But Always use the clutch to change down through gears.

 

http://www.shell.com/home/content/in-en/shell_for_motorists/tips_for_motorists/biking_tips.html

 

Read the first two lines in 'Clutch Control' Section of "Tips for You and Your Bike" and reply this topic.

Does it mean that you should sometimes avoid using clutch while upshifting gears but always use clutch while downshifting gears?

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hey i don think so , I hav never heard anyone saying this till now. What would happen to the clutch plate if clutch is not used while changing up gears.This causes damage to the clutch plate with less km readings itself!!!!111

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The article is given by Shell. So it can be trusted. It is true actually, i asked some friends and they agreed n this too. After reading this article, i tried it. We can shift up gears without using clutch. If the engine speed is not right, it is not shifting or gives a jerky shift. But when it is right, shifting gears without clutch is as smooth as shifting with clutch.

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The article is given by Shell. So it can be trusted. It is true actually' date=' i asked some friends and they agreed n this too. After reading this article, i tried it. We can shift up gears without using clutch. If the engine speed is not right, it is not shifting or gives a jerky shift. But when it is right, shifting gears without clutch is as smooth as shifting with clutch.[/quote']

 

as u said the shifting of gear can be done without using clutch, but please tell me wouldnt it damage the clutch plate.......

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I don't use the clutch many times. It takes a lot of time to master the technique, but it can be done. You need to match the revs and speed and known when to shift. It can be done and if done properly, it will save you from wearing the clutch.

 

FRG

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yes dude this is a very nice way to shift gears and as most of u must be thinking it will jerk.. ur wrong it will b 1 of the smoothest gear shift u can.. n never force the gear.. when ur in right speed right rpm the gear wil shift easily as said by FRG..

For ppl who own bikes i wld suggest u first master this trick on bikes and then on 4 wheelers ul learn faster..

 

Note From Admin: Please don't use SMS lingo on the forum. Type in full proper english.
FuelRunGod2009-02-23 17:29:33

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I don't use the clutch many times. It takes a lot of time to master the technique' date=' but it can be done. You need to match the revs and speed and known when to shift. It can be done and if done properly, it will save you from wearing the clutch.FRG[/quote']

Manish,

           I am facing some problems while Shifting Gears Without Clutch on Indigo XL.

      If I forcefully try to engage gears without Clutch, the Gearbox makes Grinding noise.

 Example- I want to shift from 2nd to 3rd.

        When I bring the Gear lever from 2nd to Neutral Position, no

noise comes. But after that while bringing the gear lever to 3rd Gear

Position, either grinding noise comes or the gear lever refuses to

shift to 3rd.

     

  1. If the gear is shifted at right rpm, will the gear lever slot into the required gear without Clutch?

  2. Does it make difference between Hydraulically operated Clutch and Dry Clutch in shifting Gears Without Clutch Operation?

 

 i am asking this because Indigos have Dry Clutch (There is no Container of Oil corresponding to Clutch Under the Bonnet).

     The Containers present under Bonnet of Indicas/Indigos are=

          Coolant, Wiper Washer Fluid, Brake Oil.

 There is no Container of Clutch is present unlike Safari and Sumo.

I will try Up shifting and Downshifting on Indigo and see the difference.

Anyways Currently using my Pulsar 180 DTSi (LCD) without Clutch for up shifting (Except while up shifting from Neutral to 1st of coursesmiley36.gifsmiley36.gif),

  But Fully Depressing Clutch while Downshifting (Shell Recommends Depressing Clutch while Downshifting the Gears) See the original Post for Link.

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Its a lot easier to do an upshift on 2 wheelers without using the clutch (racers do it all the time).

Its not really that useful on cars - The exception being when you get stuck with a failed clutch! The clutch on our Padmini failed once while driving from Delhi to Lucknow (ages ago). Being stuck on the highway was not an option! - So I had to jump out, push the car along till it picked up some momentum and then dad would slot it into 2'nd - the momentum was key to not stalling the engine. Once we'd get moving - he'd quickly shift up and pick up speed. The important thing is to not flinch when you hear your gears complain and to always work the gear shifter quickly.

IMO - only practice it with your car if you want to train to be able to deal with such an eventuality - otherwise - the extra stress on your gears is not worth it.

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Manish, would you please discuss your experience with your Safari regarding Shifting Gears Without Using Clutch?

Do you Up Shift Gears Without Clutch or Also Downshift Without Clutch?

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Yes I shift up and down without the clutch but I don't do it for all the gears.

 

From experience I have discovered changing up from 2nd-3rd-4th can be easily done if you know the shift points. I am not able to get from 4th to 5th. So I use the clutch for that. If done correctly, you should not hear any grinding from the gearbox.

 

Generally it is easier to do in the higher gears. For downshift again, I do it in 4th-3rd-2nd gears. You have to know what the engine rpm will be in the gear you are about to downshift to. Once rpm is match, the gearbox will slot in easily.

 

Disclamer: If not done properly, it WILL damage your gearbox. And please do not try this on a public road. Instead learn the technique on a private road where you won't endanger other traffic.

 

FRG

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i tried it on my bike shifting up from 3rd to 4th actually if ur speed is abt 35km & above u can do it' date='while doing it the bike jerked a little bit.[/quote']

At right engine speeds, it won't jerk, even a bit. You can try it on all gears. But getting them right at all time is a bit difficult and one needs to master on it.

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I don't use Clutch while Up Shifting the Gears (except from Neutral to 1st

of coursesmiley36.gifsmiley36.gif), but Always use the Clutch while Down Shifting the Gears.

 This way I save wear and tear of Clutch to a GREAT EXTENT smiley4.gifsmiley32.gif.

And Up shifting without Clutch Feels Great smiley17.gifsmiley4.gif and if done properly, no jerks are felt.

I will use this Technique on all Bikes Henceforth.smiley4.gif

smiley4.gif

But I am in doubt how to do this in Indigo?

Would the gearbox of Indigo support Shifting without Clutch (Indigo has Dry Clutch and not a Hydraulic Clutch)?

sudeepd2009-03-02 05:28:51

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In cars 'double declutching' was the norm till the seventies. All gears were not synchromesh. Even the Amby and Fiat/Premier did not have synchromesh in first gear.

In 'double declutching' you came into neutral, blipped the throttle, and then went into the gear. Changing gears without clutch is indeed possible if you can match the engine revs exactly!

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Changing gears without clutch is indeed possible if you can match the engine revs exactly!

Can it be done safely (avoiding damage to Gearbox) in Tata Indigo?

I want to minimize wear and tear of Clutch and also increase the FE by avoiding the Clutch Usage while Up shifting and Down shifting the Gears of Tata Indigo (LS and XL).

So would you recommend to up shift and down shift the Gears of Indigo (Dry Clutch) without using the Clutch?

EDIT:

     Will shifting gears (up shift and down shift) without clutch ruin the Gearbox of Tata Indigo?

Sudeep.

sudeepd2009-03-02 06:53:40

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It is true that u need not use the clutch while upshifting on a bike. I do it every time I ride the bike. The advantage is that you take lesser time to move through the gears.

If you understand the operation of the clutch it actually isolated the crank from the gear box. when you move from for eg from 1st to 2nd the gear dia is reducing and hence the selector when shifting from a higher gear to a lower gear does not entail meshing as the 2nd gear until it is selected in inactive so on and so forth. but while coming from a lower gear to a higher gear the inverse happens and crank and the other gears are spinning and hence the clutch needs to be involved to isolate the spinning crank from the gear to be selected, so here if you do not use the clutch you could destory the gear box.

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@sudeepd: Unless you have the skills of a top rally driver do not try not to use the clutch. The damage you may will be fare more that wear and tear in the clutch you may save. I do sometimes (not so much more) go into neurtal without the clutch (no sweat), but invariably use the clutch to engage gear.

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Come on people - not using the clutch isn't an everyday practice. Its for those one off occasions when your clutch actually fails on you in the middle of nowhere !

The only people who do a clutchless shift on a regular basis are people whose cars (the entire drivetrain) are overhauled on an everyday basis - every race :)

Educating people on correct clutch usage is much more important - and if you do use your clutch right (it involves the same technique of matching the engine RPM's to the gear you are about to shift it) - your clutch will last you atleast twice as long as the average Joe.

The clutch on my daily runaround (M800) - driven 60% in bumper to bumper traffic did about 95K km before it started to slip and I had to get it replaced.

I guess that a clutch overhaul anytime after 50K km must be accepted as part and parcel of the cost of ownership of a car.

Unless you drive an automatic like @sgiitk smiley1.gifdtandon2009-03-02 12:22:58

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Come on people - not using the clutch isn't an everyday practice. Its for those one off occasions when your clutch actually fails on you in the middle of nowhere!
The damage you may will be fare more that wear and tear

in the clutch you may save. but invariably use the clutch to engage

gear.

Mr. DTandon and SG Sir,

                    I think you did not read my First Post in this Topic.

I request both of you please read it carefully. It contains Link of Shell Company, one of the Best Lubricants Manufacturer in the World, which recommends as the Topic Name mentioned above "Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears".

So now if Shell Company recommends Don't always use clutch for up shifting, then we should follow it.

The reason why shell said "Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears" is that you will have to up shift Using Clutch at least once (from Neutral to 1st).

But after that you can Up Shift Without Using Clutch.

SO MY DEAR FRIENDS DON'T ALWAYS USE CLUTCH FOR CHANGING UP GEARS BUT ALWAYS USE THE CLUTCH TO CHANGE DOWN THROUGH GEARS.

And Save Clutch, In Turn Fuel, In Turn Earth.

Please refer to the link in the Very First Post for more information.

sudeepd2009-03-02 13:21:36

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It is safe to shift without the clutch probably I have increased my bike's clutch life (CBZ it's 9 years old) by doing so. I don't know if it is easy in a car, as on a multicylinder engine with a heavy gear box how it would pan out.

But with a light single cylinder engine it is smooth.

Come on people - not using the clutch isn't an everyday practice. Its for those one off occasions when your clutch actually fails on you in the middle of nowhere!
The damage you may will be fare more that wear and tear

in the clutch you may save. but invariably use the clutch to engage

gear.

Mr. DTandon and SG Sir' date='                    I think you did not read my First Post in this Topic.I request both of you please read it carefully. It contains Link of Shell Company, one of the Best Lubricants Manufacturer in the World, which recommends as the Topic Name mentioned above "<span>Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears".So now if Shell Company recommends Don't always use clutch for up shifting, then we should follow it.The reason why shell said </span><span>"Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears" is that you will have to up shift Using Clutch at least once (from Neutral to 1st).But after that you can Up Shift Without Using Clutch.SO MY DEAR FRIENDS DON'T ALWAYS USE CLUTCH FOR CHANGING UP GEARS BUT ALWAYS USE THE CLUTCH TO CHANGE DOWN THROUGH GEARS.And Save Clutch, In Turn Fuel, In Turn Earth.Please refer to the link in the Very First Post for more information.</span>[/quote']

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PLEASE ALL NOTE THE SHELL SITE TALKS ONLY OF BIKES AND NOT CARS, DO NOT TRY IT ON CARS!!!!!

It is safe to shift without the clutch probably I have increased my bike's clutch life (CBZ it's 9 years old) by doing so. I don't know if it is easy in a car' date=' as on a multicylinder engine with a heavy gear box how it would pan out.

But with a light single cylinder engine it is smooth.

Come on people - not using the clutch isn't an everyday practice. Its for those one off occasions when your clutch actually fails on you in the middle of nowhere!
The damage you may will be fare more that wear and tear

in the clutch you may save. but invariably use the clutch to engage

gear.

Mr. DTandon and SG Sir' date='                    I think you did not read my First Post in this Topic.I request both of you please read it carefully. It contains Link of Shell Company, one of the Best Lubricants Manufacturer in the World, which recommends as the Topic Name mentioned above "<span>Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears".So now if Shell Company recommends Don't always use clutch for up shifting, then we should follow it.The reason why shell said </span><span>"Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears" is that you will have to up shift Using Clutch at least once (from Neutral to 1st).But after that you can Up Shift Without Using Clutch.SO MY DEAR FRIENDS DON'T ALWAYS USE CLUTCH FOR CHANGING UP GEARS BUT ALWAYS USE THE CLUTCH TO CHANGE DOWN THROUGH GEARS.And Save Clutch, In Turn Fuel, In Turn Earth.Please refer to the link in the Very First Post for more information.</span>[/quote']

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Mr. DTandon and SG Sir' date='                    I think you did not read my First Post in this Topic.I request both of you please read it carefully. It contains Link of Shell Company, one of the Best Lubricants Manufacturer in the World, which recommends as the Topic Name mentioned above "<span>Don't always use the clutch for changing up gears".So now if Shell Company recommends Don't always use clutch for up shifting, then we should follow it.[/quote']

Ok - I'm posting some content from the same link (just the heading actually) -

Shell - tips

Our biking tips are aimed at helping you get the most out of riding. We hope these hints prove useful in aiding a safe and enjoyable time on the road.

Tips for You and Your Bike

The link you are referring to is for 2 wheelers. Clutchless shifting on a Car is a different matter altogether - and is what we've been trying to advise you against.

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