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Overpricing Of Honda Cars

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Honda might have got horrified with so many european brands like VW entering India with small car plans SO SOON  & this has prompted them to price their cars heavily so that their cars look top of the knotch quality....

 

Infact' date=' they would have actually got surprised to see sales exceeding their own expectations.

 

IF VW prices their Cars wisely, they can give Honda a run.............since VW is now only Second largest manufacturer across the world now....

 
[/quote']

 

Honda is never bothered by VW and will never be. hell it was not even bothered by its sister company Skoda, than i don't think it cares about VW.

 

as for VW small car plans. i think they are planning to launch polo/golf which i bet will be expensive or at par with jazz.

 

and fyi, competition is a very very good thing for us consumer else we would not have seen many features(abs,airbag rite from a-star to merc) in all segments of car. so if honda is facing a competition, they would keep their price in check rather than pricing it high. But the pricing clearly shows its not too bothered as they don't have a compelling competition till now. i was hoping linea to give competition to city, but sadly 900 units a month doesn't cut a cake against a car that sells 2500 units a month on regular basis. that too even in this recession times.

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Also' date=' FRG if you can get someone to do an age profiling of the posts in this topic you will find a distinct difference between preferences of the younger and older members. I expect that it is the older lot which votes for Honda.

[/quote']

 

i would like to disagree with your generalization here. imho younger lot goes for honda rather than older lot.

 

i have seen many jazz on road here and most of them are driven by young couples or female about the age of 20 to 30. either this is their 2nd car in family or newly owned car to show off that they have a honda.

 

also in civic and altis, i believe altis to be more of a family oriented car than a civic. civic is million times better to drive than altis. its the same opinion the world over. altis in usa is called a 'perfectly boring car for family'.

 

same goes for accord and camry too. in India camry is imported, so the sales aren't much, so those going for accord are executives that are chauffered or driven by owners. and why not accord has one of the best rear seats in business rivalling a 3-series or c class(comparing only rear seat comfort, nothing else).

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Partly agreed with deathrace, Honda cannot feel threatened By the advent of VolksWagen(VW) in INdia.Usually, Japanese auto-manufacturer's mainstay is Petrol Engines,and they have quite excelled in the techniques in developing , integrating them with latest technologies in thier cars, and selling thier cars with legitimate prices.In comparison , European auto-manufacturer's cars's prices are usually over-board when provinding that something which Japanese manufacturer provide in thier petrol cars.

Also, VW being european has its maintstay : Diesel Engines.Most of the cars driven in Europe have under thier hood Diesel Engines. They provide viable Diesel Technologies in thier cars , which Japanese auto-manufacturer can't. The only, Japanese auto-manufacturer that has been making endeavours in Diesel technology and competing well against Europeans is : NIssan.

Your comment about , VW being 2nd largest auto-manufacturer in the world. Well, plausible but i have always believed that VW is an inflated balloon with Audi, and Porsche being VW conglomerate's most important elements.And, the day Porsche and/or Audi think about breaking off from its parent VW. VW's balloon will burst!. As a matter of fact, month or 2 ago, Porsche's unsuccessfull bid to take over the parent--something , unprecidented in Auto history, where a small fish striving to gulp down big fish-- was retailated well By VW's counter bid to bring stability.Yet, this too requires another thread for complete discussion.!

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hey dhawan, i agree with you.

 

but i think, VW is taking India's auto market for granted. the reason being, their sister company Skoda providing 3cylinder engine in the world of 4 cylinder engine. due to this there is less performance, harshness from engine, not eager to drive among other problems. i wonder why they are doing this? also their famed a.s.s is a big problem.

 

one of major roadblock for VW would be service centers in cities all over India. Honda has a good presence in almost all cities of India while VW has a long way to go in bringing up showrooms and service center in 2nd tier cities. Those splurging 10 lakhs for a vehicle need excellent back up to cover up their money, else it all down the drain. same goes for Skoda too as well as Nissan.

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Well VW has just develloped a fantastic range of TSi engines which swept away the international engine awards. There is a 1.2 TSi motor that churns out around 100bhp, which would be enough for a sedan( read polo sedan) thus getting benefit from the excise duty. This could really help in pricing of the cars.

Frankly the only two companies I feel that can end Honda's domination in the mid size sedan segment, then its either VW or toyota, cos no other car company has that brand value

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Well VW has just develloped a fantastic range of TSi engines which swept away the international engine awards. There is a 1.2 TSi motor that churns out around 100bhp' date=' which would be enough for a sedan( read polo sedan) thus getting benefit from the excise duty. This could really help in pricing of the cars.

Frankly the only two companies I feel that can end Honda's domination in the mid size sedan segment, then its either VW or toyota, cos no other car company has that brand value [/quote']

 

Well said! I would bet on the Toyotas if they try harder but i doubt the VWs since they dont seem to be competetive enough in India!

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in delhi i see a jazz almost daily...it looks gorgeous in black and styling is absolutely classy....honda cars are bashed for being over-expensive but they are the best looking cars,have the best petrol engine and their reliability is top-notch...compare it to grande punto and its a car whose engine is a big zero and the only craze is about its features and looks...

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in delhi i see a jazz almost daily...it looks gorgeous in black and styling is absolutely classy....honda cars are bashed for being over-expensive but they are the best looking cars' date='have the best petrol engine and their reliability is top-notch...compare it to grande punto and its a car whose engine is a big zero and the only craze is about its features and looks... [/quote']

I think Honda is selling 75% of their cars in Delhi because people like one above here go for Honda, what so ever.

In delhi people don't  ask where is my car key?, they ask it like this, meri Honda ki Chabi Kanha Hai ?( They think its kind of reputation ) Also people like to flaunt too much here get lots of loan from other people.

First ask those driving Fiat and then comment about their Engines and also car is not only Engine its over all package.

By the way this thread is for Honda therefore Please Don't Drag Fiat onwers here to Bash Honda here.

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This is what I dont like about fiat owners. As soon as you say a word about fiat they are at your throats. I mean, come on no car is perfect, its best to accept flaws, cos you will face more people pointing out the flaws than those defending you. With how many will you argue. The fact that linea and punto beg for more power is no brainer. Fiat is not a magician that even though the engine produces 90bhp the car would rocket off like a 150 bhp. Just other day, i dont know on which forum i saw a linea fire owner arguing with a civic owner that he can outrun him in a straight line race. I mean are those extra 40 bhp in the honda going to vanish because they have a fiat alongside them. I have driven the punto and after ritz and jazz its engine was a disappointment for me. The fact that the engines are suited for day to day purpose is allright, but may not satisfy hunger of many.

Anyways regarding honda, yes their engine is a real gem. I think of all the petrol engines in hatchbacks in india the top three would be

1. Honda 1.2 VTec

2. MS K12M

3. Hyundai 1.2 kappa

And cartoos like you said people think its a reputation to own a honda, thats cos it has a huge brand value. Just for an example, take a watch, a person always wants a watch that has some premium feel with it. He can know the time from a cheap watch too, possibly with same accuracy, but the costly watch is something that he likes and is passionate about. So honda isnt selling because of a wonderful car, (it was selling more than higher powered sx4, fiesta even when it had the 77bhp engine) it is selling because its a honda.

And same stands for fiat, it is selling lesser because its a fiat.

So unless someone with huge brand quality( either toyota or vw) bring out an awesome car to challenge honda, it will charge a premium and still sell appreciably. Until then its a fight for the second place especially among sedans.

Has anyone noticed that those companies that companies that come from higher segment to lower segment have higher brand value. While others are branded as cheap car manufacturers(eg. maruti, hyundai)?

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are the mods sleeping to allow this useless thread go on.

members are fighting just for nothing.

 

Arre jisko jo pasand hai woh kharido. Yahan 10 aadmiyon ke ladne se kuch prove nahi hone wala.

 

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This is what I dont like about fiat owners. As soon as you say a word about fiat they are at your throats.

Ok i will say this in another way' date=' whenever someone has to bash or has a opportunity to bash Fiat they dont leave it. smiley4.gif.

I mean, come on no car is perfectthe flaws than those defending you. With how many will you argue. The fact that linea and punto beg for more power is no brainer

Underpowered engine and poor plastics get highlighted for Fiats but what about Honda not providing even a engine sump guard to protect the engine? Noone talks of it, noone talks of the fragile body. Honda owners may and will never accept flaws. They may say- Engine guard isnt there as it increases weight and reduced FE. great.

i dont know on which forum i saw a linea fire owner arguing with a civic owner that he can outrun him in a straight line race.

That member doesnt own a Linea 100%. Noone is mad enough to say such linea, care to find out the forum, want to talk with that member personally.

1. Honda 1.2 VTec

2. MS K12M

3. Hyundai 1.2 kappa

smiley3.gif , have you driven Jazz? My uncle had registered a TD and i also went with him, with 5 people and AC on it was crying for more power , 1st position for 1.2 ivtec? Only because its a Honda? 1.5 ivtec is a good engine i agree but that 1.2 is way less for a 7L +car.

And cartoos like you said people think its a reputation to own a honda, thats cos it has a huge brand value.And same stands for fiat, it is selling lesser because its a fiat.

For Maruti i understand they sell more for their brand values and service and cheap spares but Honda? Expensive spares, too less service centres, they sell because their cars have good reliability record and run trouble free for years. Fiat selling less, they did all wrong things and have poor reputation but still managed to sell 2500 cars last month which was just 1800 less than Honda.

So unless someone with huge brand quality( either toyota or vw) bring out an awesome car to challenge honda, it will charge a premium and still sell appreciably.

I read today that Jazz sold 1032 units this month which is 50% off last month sales and thats too bad for a new car. Seems intelligent people are unable to digest 7L for a 1.2 L hatch and H badge isnt saving the car.

Has anyone noticed that those companies that companies that come from higher segment to lower segment have higher brand value. While others are branded as cheap car manufacturers(eg. maruti, hyundai)

Well if you land in a hotel either in a SX4 or Fiesta or a Honda city you will get equal treatment. For Accord, Sonata it may matter but C segment, Honda owners may think they may get better treatment as they come in a Honda, harsh reality is SX4 gets equal respect, its a good car has sold good nos and deserves it.

Ok you put 1.2L engine in Jazz. A featureless car and you call it expensive brand cars, give a 1.4L Crdi i20 with all features, safety, diesel advantage and more no of serv centres than Honda and you call it cheap because its offering more for less.

Anyways as some say sales will show which manufacturer has good brand value and reputation with customers.

This cheap expensive theory is only for those who already own a Honda or had Honda as 1st car.

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what about Honda not providing even a engine sump guard to protect the engine?

this has been widely discussed on all forums and now is available in 2009 models of jazz and city. my friend's car has it from the day he got it. please check and let me know.

1. Honda 1.2 VTec

2. MS K12M

3. Hyundai 1.2 kappa

smiley3.gif , have you driven Jazz? My uncle had registered a TD and i also went with him, with 5 people and AC on it was crying for more power , 1st position for 1.2 ivtec? Only because its a Honda? 1.5 ivtec is a good engine i agree but that 1.2 is way less for a 7L +car.

so in your opinion is 1.2 fire engine of fiat at 1st position? which can't even haul punto properly? he was comparing only the 1.2 engines and the technology that goes into building it makes one appreciate honda's effort in building one. just like someone said about 1.2 tsi from VW that produces 100 bhp. that's also a gr8 feat considering how small the engine is. but unless that comes to our shores i think 1.2 from honda will be considered one of the best engines.

I read today that Jazz sold 1032 units this month which is 50% off last month sales and thats too bad for a new car. Seems intelligent people are unable to digest 7L for a 1.2 L hatch and H badge isnt saving the car.

1000 odd units for jazz is good enough considering it is 'overpriced'. compare that to linea that sells only 900 units even though people are praising it like anything. if i remember correctly, honda's target is around 10k per year for Jazz. and doing 1000 units a month, i think they will achieve it easily

Well if you land in a hotel either in a SX4 or Fiesta or a Honda city you will get equal treatment. For Accord, Sonata it may matter but C segment, Honda owners may think they may get better treatment as they come in a Honda, harsh reality is SX4 gets equal respect, its a good car has sold good nos and deserves it.

the harsh reality at my place is honda city gets more 'woows' or 'oh he's got a honda look, sayings' compared to maruti sx4. and its still the same at many places i have been too. i too have arrived in a city and a sx4 and i know the difference it makes. i feel i can make this remark as i own both.

oh yes sx4 sells less than city. it desperately needs a diesel engine if it really wants to compete with city. else its a no brainer

deathrace2009-08-02 05:55:13

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This is what I dont like about fiat owners. As soon as you say a word about fiat they are at your throats. I mean, come on no car is perfect, its best to accept flaws, cos you will face more people pointing out the flaws than those defending you.

You should respect other peoples decision to buy the car they like. Some people can't sometimes digest that why the hell Fiat is selling better car at cheaper price. By the way when fiat sold higher powered cars then you said its fuel burner. Now when they have given right engine you say its under powered, I mean what do you want from they.

OVER FEEDING A MULE DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE WILL BEAT A STEAD IN THE RACE !
cartoos2009-08-02 09:57:27

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are the mods sleeping to allow this useless thread go on.

members are fighting just for nothing.

?

Arre jisko jo pasand hai woh kharido. Yahan 10 aadmiyon ke ladne se kuch prove nahi hone wala.

?
agree.

mods close this thread now smiley9.gif

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what a thread!! Brings me back memories of the past duels in our forum! Well I will just quickly add my points here, very briefly:-

1) I read somewhere that for honda the jazz was much more expensive to make than the city. I'm not sure if this is true. The point is, Honda could have priced he jazz at par with the fabia / jazz and romped home with great sales! They could have done that and generated volumes. Any ***** knows that! so why didnt they do so? Either they couldnt or they either wanted to be really premium and thought that can sell at any price in india. If its the latter, then i'm sure it will back fire in india.

2) Secondly, I do feel that Honda is over priced, yeah sure, there is much more reliability than some other cars, but not enough to justify this premium.

3) Thirdly, every manufacturer have their own right to exercise their price points. If Skoda can walk away with a premium badge in india, why not Honda? Yeah skoda is rock solid, blah,blah..but they did price their cars with a premium all these years, and they did not have great technology either. Only now they have sort of justified their prices with the new superb and even the fabia { when compared to the jazz / i20}.

having said all of this, which apparently is not in support of honda nor against it, I wouldnt buy a honda with my heart. some people who think its about affordability but i dont think so. If i were to buy a car in the 8-10 lakh bracket I would surely love something like a fiesta or the linea, which have more character, which will push you to drive more and I would probably risk the 10% unreliability of these cars with a honda. What the heck! its a car not a robot!

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The mindset of people cannot be changed. Honda fans remain Honda fans even if they dont drive one. It is the same for other brands also. I have a question to the die hard fans of Honda:

 Why Honda is not the No.1 selller in the world in any segment of cars they produce when they have the greatest technology, best design and right pricing according to you?

 

 

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This is what I dont like about fiat owners. As soon as you say a word about fiat they are at your throats. I mean' date=' come on no car is perfect, its best to accept flaws, cos you will face more people pointing out the flaws than those defending you. With how many will you argue. The fact that linea and punto beg for more power is no brainer. Fiat is not a magician that even though the engine produces 90bhp the car would rocket off like a 150 bhp. Just other day, i dont know on which forum i saw a linea fire owner arguing with a civic owner that he can outrun him in a straight line race. I mean are those extra 40 bhp in the honda going to vanish because they have a fiat alongside them. I have driven the punto and after ritz and jazz its engine was a disappointment for me. The fact that the engines are suited for day to day purpose is allright, but may not satisfy hunger of many.

Anyways regarding honda, yes their engine is a real gem. I think of all the petrol engines in hatchbacks in india the top three would be
1. Honda 1.2 VTec
2. MS K12M
3. Hyundai 1.2 kappa

And cartoos like you said people think its a reputation to own a honda, thats cos it has a huge brand value. Just for an example, take a watch, a person always wants a watch that has some premium feel with it. He can know the time from a cheap watch too, possibly with same accuracy, but the costly watch is something that he likes and is passionate about. So honda isnt selling because of a wonderful car, (it was selling more than higher powered sx4, fiesta even when it had the 77bhp engine) it is selling because its a honda.
And same stands for fiat, it is selling lesser because its a fiat.

So unless someone with huge brand quality( either toyota or vw) bring out an awesome car to challenge honda, it will charge a premium and still sell appreciably. Until then its a fight for the second place especially among sedans.


Has anyone noticed that those companies that companies that come from higher segment to lower segment have higher brand value. While others are branded as cheap car manufacturers(eg. maruti, hyundai)?[/quote']

I suggest You Read BBC Top Gear July Issue, Otherwise I am Giving you here What Punto Does, read below:

Performance : 0-100kph in 12.5 secs.

175 kph max speed

13 kpl (all figuer estimated)

Tech: 1368cc, 4-in line, FWD, 89bhp 115Nm, 1145kg

Ofcourse Petrol.

Some one at Team Bhp is getting 30 + FE from heavier Linea, spare some time to read before making coments. 

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I read today that Jazz sold 1032 units this month which is 50% off last month sales and thats too bad for a new car. Seems intelligent people are unable to digest 7L for a 1.2 L hatch and H badge isnt saving the car.

1000 odd units for jazz is good enough considering it is 'overpriced'. compare that to linea that sells only 900 units even though people are praising it like anything. if i remember correctly, honda's target is around 10k per year for Jazz. and doing 1000 units a month, i think they will achieve it easily

Let us wait for another month it will fall another 50% to around 500

smiley36.gif

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I suggest You Read BBC Top Gear July Issue, Otherwise I am Giving you here What Punto Does, read below:

Performance : 0-100kph in 12.5 secs.

175?kph max speed

13 kpl (all figuer estimated)

Tech: 1368cc, 4-in line, FWD, 89bhp 115Nm, 1145kg

Ofcourse Petrol.

Some one at Team Bhp is getting 30 + FE from heavier Linea, spare some time to read before making coments.?

here is the 0-100 timings from ACI

0-60

i20==5.2 ; fabia = 6.1 ; swift = 5.8, Punto = 6.28

0-100

i20 = 12.9 ; fabia = 16.2 ; swift = 13.8, Punto = 16.58

Source ACI

now as per zigwheels, ' The 1.4 petrol car though was refreshingly quick. Keep that engine revving above 4000rpm and it will reward you like it did us - 0-100km/h in 14.2 seconds'.

here is the link

http://www.zigwheels.com/Reviews/Fiat-Grande-Punto-twin-test-13-Multijet-14-FIRE/Punto12_20090616-6-8

so now if you consider 14.2 seconds from a 1.4 L a good time, than i have nothing further to say except 'you are a frog in a well'

and because of this varying results i have never believed what car magazines have to write about. the only two magazine i do consider somewhat precise is ACI and Overdrive. And the less said about Top Gear the better.

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