sb-alto

BMW and SUV owners are criminals--Jayram Ramesh

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@sarabjeet- "Why should a person from Delhi talk about removing subsidy when they already enjoy the benefits of low fuel prices"

I am sorry to say the wording you used was pretty harsh  smiley21.gif

This Delhi person wording is unacceptable. Jairam Ramesh is from South India not a Delhi fellow.

 I am not talking about soot , I am referring to Particulate matter which is more dangerous - It typically affects asthmatics and leads to respiratory problems.

Off topic

No hard feeling Sarabjeet - Its that discussion gets hot dude.

Cheers

Spock

Mr. Spock2010-11-15 14:38:09

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@alto - I am sorry to say I am entitled to express my views which I have done in a restrained manner.

Does everybody go daily with Joint family in SUV? the answer is no- it is for those weekend trips and that to out station or long distance its fine.A SUV in hilly region is risky due to high center of gravity.

If they really want an SUV why they are not going for petrol engined version?

@Mr Spock

I read all the conversations between you and sarabjeet. I guess he answered what I would have said.

Petrol cars are good but Petrol SUVs?? OMG!! They will drain your bank account, Provident Fund and even FDs.

I have not taken any personal offence with your post. smiley2.gif

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The real climax of the comment by the Hon'ble Minister is this news from the German media.

The

viewer's comments below the news in some cases make funny reading. Some

are balanced, some are spicy but some are vitriolic!

Please click on this website for more:

Indian official calls German cars 'criminal' - The Local

anjan_c20072010-11-15 17:09:41

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I agree with Sarab on the regulation of fuel prices to be uniform across the country. Its ridiculous to expect half the country to pay more than the rest.

 

@Mr.Spock As far as luxurious vehicles go we already have registration charges that are set up depending on the prices of the car. For e.g. in Delhi, cars above 10Lacs in price have to pay 10% registration charges while it is less for cheaper cars. If thats not enough then I am sure our govt. will make sure the elite few are asked to pay more as it has always been the case. Expecting them to not enjoy the luxuries they have worked hard to achieve is not fair. People should be allowed to use whatever vehicle they please. Your opinion about expensive cars being a frivolous expense is respectable but not the only current answer.

 

You mentioned how the tax payer's subsidy is being used to travel in luxury cars, please do not forget that those very same people pay most of the taxes. The days when diesel was considered the fuel only meant for commercial purposes or for transporting masses are history. Some things need to be uniform and fuel price is one those things. And the most viable option is the one mentioned above and already in practice. More taxes on the car and not the fuel.

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@sarabjeet- "Why should a person from Delhi talk about removing subsidy when they already enjoy the benefits of low fuel prices"
I am sorry to say the wording you used was pretty harsh  smiley21.gif
This Delhi person wording is unacceptable. Jairam Ramesh is from South India not a Delhi fellow.
 

 

i was talking abt the babus in genral. I have been to Delhi and have seen how they burn fuel ' date=' even my cousins out there. Seriously when u visit delhi and look at the price they pay and still cry , point blank range (bang) , i hope u understand my frustration. I feel like a fool to pay this price for an essential commodity , instead i feel government should revise its tax regimes , now they do not depend on taxes, they have other sources of income.


 

 I am not talking about soot , I am referring to Particulate matter which is more dangerous - It typically affects asthmatics and leads to respiratory problems.

 

Yes but those come from non crdi engine which are outdated , Diesel is a new technology it needs to be worked upon and Vovlo has shown the way , u can see the new technology in S80. It will blow u away.

 


Off topic
No hard feeling Sarabjeet - Its that discussion gets hot dude.
Cheers
Spock

 

Never yaara , its a debate i like it when it gets hotsmiley17.gif No hard feelings at all.

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@Sarbjeet - I agree with you that the Delhi people are the most "cry baby" even though they enjoy certain things which people from other states don't have eg.CWG related development. I can  understand your frustration because I lived in Belgaum , Karnataka(2004-2009)  for 5 years where fuel prices, cost of groceries, cost of vehicle was more than even Mumbai! In fact costliest State in India to live.

Diesel cars which are sold India are not that clean due to

1. varying emission norms throught country

2. lack of availability of low sulphur content fuel

3. widespread adulteration

4.corrupt ,inefficient oil sector India

So even a Volvo S80 will be polluting vehicle in our country

@sethi - This reality one has to accept. I don't want to dig deeper into similar issue because I feel its beyond the scope of this forum in reference to rich people Vs poor people debate.This subject gets pretty volatile so its better we leave this issue as it is.

@alto -Glad you are not offended!

Off Topic

I feel that the most of the problem in our country is created by self serving NGO I don't Know who are they?What they want to achieve?- A divided and Poor India 

Disclaimer

The above statement I have expressed  is my own , If someone feels offensive I apologize sincerely.

SPOCK

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Diesel cars which are sold India are not that clean due to

1. varying emission norms throught country

2. lack of availability of low sulphur content fuel

3. widespread adulteration

4.corrupt' date=' inefficient oil sector India

[/quote']

1. As far as I know we only have BS3 and BS4 now.

2. BS4 fuels are pretty good.

3. Endemic - supported by politicians. Depending on who you believe 63% to 90%+ of fair price kerosene ends up in adulterating automotive fuels.

4. The PSUs are a law unto themselves.

Deregulate all fuel prices, and do away with subsidy and put equal excise across the board, and then let us see.

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Regarding deregulation of fuel prices ,I feel there is a strong  lobby which is preventing Fuels and other commodities from being cheaper, easily accessible , widespread.This lobby successfully prevented Liberalization for 40 years and still continues to influence the way we live.It gets threatened if there is slight upward mobility , prosperity of downtrodden 

I will not blame Politicians , bureaucrats for all problems. There many self styled mavericks in our country who hold development to ransom.

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Indian diesel is good enought to compete with international standards, remember Audi does sell it W12 tdi engine and all german engines run fine. There is some adultration but then again it has to be taken care off.

i had always criticised the Indian govt policies towards Libralization but the recent melt down has made me convince that a free market at a current stage isn't possible , it will lead to unwanted activites. We still need time to mature , we have to open up our markets slowly

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On his attack on diesel-guzzling cars like sports utility vehicles (SUVs), Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh today asked the users of such cars to pay full market price for the fossil fuel which is being sold at subsidised rates for farmers.

"Why should they get subsidised fuel meant for farmers," Ramesh asked while speaking at a conference on 5th Sustainability Summit organised by CII.

"We introduce the (diesel) subsidy for a certain economic purposes but have ended up with a wholly different purpose...," he said while favouring incentives to the firms aiming at sustainable development.

What d Hell is wrong with these minister they very well know the fact that the main reason people buy a diesel cars is the price of diesel .Now they are making these kind of comments

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I have found many of his comments ridiculous about SUVs but this I completely agree with. Special subsidy to diesel is meant to control goods transportation cost, which would otherwise lead to inflation.

However, there is no point in selling diesel at subsidised rates to those owning 15 lakh SUVs and using it for normal driving.

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Where is the subsidy. You take Rs.x as taxes and then return 10% of that to the oilcos is not subsidy in my way of looking at things.

Setting up a dual pricing will be loved by the politicos and babus - more backhanders.

A suggestion - do away with subsidies across the board. Maybe allow some food stamps to the needy. See what will happen

1. Reduced sale of Kerosene (70%+ goes into auto-fuels).

2. Increased sale of auto-fuels, esp. diesel.

3. Lower air pollution levels.

4. LPG available off the shelf - no diversion to transport, shops, etc.

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Diesel , kerosene,LPG should never have been subsided at all- misguided socialist policies at that time(continuing till  today as LPG is going to be subsidized for BPL families)

Seeing the prices of vegetables,pulses( Rs 100 for 100 grams of lady finger) , I think even Farmers don't deserve subsidy.These farmers have become millionaires overnight as state pays them huge money for their meager land to build roads which are tolled.These rich farmer's then buy land somewhere else due to their farmer status As their  income is not taxed - they indirectly BUMP prices of houses , food . and buy SUV to flaunt and why the taxpayer shoulder the burden of these farmers millionaires?

These subsidies have resulted in indirect inflation as more people are encouraged since its cheap leading to shortage and high prices in long run.

@sarbjeet - this meltdown you are talking about was due these welfare schemes introduced by European countries and America which lead to their downfall.Our Govt. is also following this path I wonder what will happen in next decade!

Mr. Spock2010-12-04 08:58:07

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@spock,

Not all farmers are like what you say. There are many farmers in our country who couldn't even have 2 meals per day. With recent floods, their condition would be worse.

 

A simple soln to Govt is Make CNG available through out India, that would push a sizable amount of Diesel car buyers towards CNG car.

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@bala - I am not talking about those marginal farmers.I am talking about those farmers having more than 2.5 acres who benefited most from development at the expense of Taxpayer but are now misusing the newly acquired wealth.

I agree with sgiitk regarding food stamp and any civilized nation  ought to do it. But how can subsidy for LPG helpful for BPL families I fail  to understand.

This discussion has deviated from talking about Jairam 's SUV bashing to discussion about social and political policies How ironical.

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