dr_nishu

Scoop: Honda Brio Diesel in India !!

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Finally:

A Honda..

A hatchback..

& A Diesel one.. Wow.

What a lethal combination it can be !! In the market Petrol cars(even 2-wheelers) are struggling for their existence.

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Caught recently a diesel version of Honda Brio being tested near Gurgaon by kpzen(of team-bhp). The member claims that he could hear diesel clatter and see black smoke being emitted by the tail pipe and this lead him to believe that the Brio he saw is powered by a oil burner. This sighting means that Honda isn

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To my knowledge the first diesel engine from Honda would feature in its CITY rather than its BRIO, few weeks back i read a press article about Honda launching City with a diesel heart , will try to find it and paste here.

I feel City needs more HELP than the Brio

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I also read the same thread by kpzen(of team-bhp) and although many members did find the scoop a bit vague but there were good reasons to believe that it was a diesel (diesel clattering sound being heard, some black smoke being emitted and no badging on it's rear as the current petrol one has).

Although Honda hasn't officially announced any 1.2L diesel but it's quite feasible considering it to be a 3 pot engine (taking one out of the announced 1.6L, 4 pot engine).

Rumors are there of it being launched in Q1 of 2013.

Let's see how things turn out.

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This is new :

 

Honda was initially planning to launch the diesel model by 2013, the company is advancing the launch of Honda Brio by Diwali this year.Honda has already asked the R& D department to speed up the work, and if required, it may also go for a third party arrangement ,Honda Brio will become the first car to have the diesel engine followed by City and Jazz.

So heres my question which diesel engine are they testing the car with, theirs or third parties ?

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6 months before, there cropped a news on Honda developing a 1.4L D for Brio & Jazz, a 1.6L D for City & Civic.

 

So, If they scrap the 1.4L project & sign GM engines, they can power Brio with 1L VGT MJD & power Jazz with 1.3LVGT MJD.

 

They can also launch a cheaper City variant with 1.3VGT MJD, so their Diesel line up will be like,

 

Brio 1L

Brio 1.3L

Jazz 1.3L

City 1.3L

City 1.6L

Civic 1.6L

 

Or just sign for 1.3MJD from Fiat or GM and launch as highlighted above.
creativebala2012-05-28 10:51:41

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Honda?was initially planning to launch the diesel model by 2013' date=' the company is advancing the launch of Honda Brio by Diwali this year.Honda has already asked the R& D department to speed up the work, and if required, it may also go for a third party arrangement ,Honda Brio will become the first car to have the diesel engine followed by City and Jazz.
[/quote']

May I know, what's the source of this Information ??

Please share the link about the same, if you're having.

So heres my question which diesel engine?are they testing the car with' date=' theirs or third parties ?
[/quote']

Maybe Chevrolet India for Beat's 1.0l XDSE/TDCi extra-compact diesel engine, I guess.

But the real question is that why GM should the engine to its direct competitor with product in same segment which is having the potential to dethrone the former.

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But the real question is that why GM should the engine to its direct competitor with product in same segment which is having the potential to dethrone the former.

Economies of Scale. GM can't run a Engine line-up for those just 3000 Beats it sells. GM production capacity is in lakhs, so just 36k 1L MJD/ Year is not that profittable.

But if they sell it to Suzuki, GM will need to enhance its production 3-4 times, as A*, WagonR, Eeco, Ritz(a cheaper variant) would eat it, so all in all, Maruti alone would require 40-50k engines every month.

 

So, selling to Honda is Safe. Brio might just require 10-15k every month.

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But then there's whole debate of profitability. What do you think the profitability of an engine is than compared with a Car? I think a car might be fetching GM atleast 4-5 times more profit than just selling engines itself.

Besides there's a business decision risk. What if, tomorrow Honda moves to FIAT or some other company than GM ? This is the main reason why companies don't share resources aka lack of trust...

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GM or Fiat is not such a trusted brand in India, but the engine they have IS.

 

You have just booked a Beat, so you must be knowing what MULITJET means. Profitabililty may be less initially, but as said before, selling 4000 cars should be more profitable than selling 4000 engines, but neither Honda nor Maruti will ask for 4000-5000 engines a month.

 

So when GM can produces as many engines they can and still feed other companies, its a Win-Win for both.

 

Classic example - Fiat's Multijet.

Fiat sells around 2000 cars a month.

Fiat sells more than 50,000 engines (18k Swift, 10k DZire, 3k SX4, 10k R-III, 1k Rio, 6k Ritz, 6k Vista, 4k Manza)

 

Now tell which is profitable, 2k cars or 50k engines.

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First, my question based on my view 

 

Will Honda have the same image as a manfacturer if they stoop to these levels (third party arrangements)  just to survive in cut throat competition ,i would have prefered them to come out with their own diesel car rather than a borrowed one .(engine and everything) , what happened to the term PREMIUM BRAND.

 

The other thing you all are talking about is engines , In the words of Mr Jagdish Khattar , small cars in india prefer to have a European Engine rather than a American one, thus the reason ,why the ones from FIAT, rule our roads , so in this case will Honda's small car go for any other engine ? 

 

@doctor

 

The source is an insider.Its going to come out soon.

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The other thing you all are talking about is engines ' date=' In the words of Mr Jagdish Khattar , small cars in india prefer to have a European Engine rather than a American one, thus the reason ,why the ones from FIAT,?rule our roads , so in this case will Honda's small car go for any other engine ??

[/quote']

That GM-Chevrolet Beat diesel engine is Simply a 3-cylinder version of 4-cylinder, 1.3 FIAT Multijet engine with its 1-cylinder chopped off. If you divide its engine displacement i.e 1248cc by 4 & multiply it by 3, it comes out to be 936cc i.e the engine capacity of Beat Diesel.

So, its actually an European engine.

GM can use this engine because it was the Technical partner for the R&D of this engine. They can use it like FIAT without paying any Royality to anyone.

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Looking at the growth of this news, I also suspect that this time Honda is testing out some third party diesel engine for its BRIO. I am sure once this is in market, it will be a great threat to some of the leading selling brands.


Price wise, should we expect it to be near 4 to 5 lacs?

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Will Honda have the same image as a manfacturer if they stoop to these levels (third party arrangements)  just to survive in cut throat competition

I don't believe that. All Apple devices are built by FoxConn, but they ensure quality. Are you worried about apple devices in the same way you mentioned above? My guess is NO. If an engine passes a HONDA QA, I would think it's good enough at least in their mind.

I think CITY + DIESEL will be a killer vehicle, it should cannibalize even the CRUZE along with VERNA. I would gladly sell off my 2011 CITY VMT for new HONDA diesel mill. My personal belief is HONDA is the best when it comes to handling, comfort etc.

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I believe this would be a negative step. Already Honda brio is used by Honda lovers who love petrol engines. Don't believe me? I know of 3 guys who dropped their jazz,city, and Civic bookings for the sweet brio.

Cute design and good quality has lead to Honda acquiring quality conscious customers and also teenage college students.

A diesel in this would be great for market share and all but the exclusivity of the vehicle regards to it's image in the market may not necessarily be a good thing for Honda. Instead Honda should bring out the city diesel and convince customers of a robust product and then gauge market response for a smaller diesel engine.

Janta products like swift sell good numbers in petrol and diesel because it's USP is different. As of now Brio has a different set of customers who could have very well gone in for better hatches.

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To drive anything now, you either need a Diesel engine or a Petrol engine delivering 25-30kmpl, else every other option is expensive for every strata of society.

So, Diesel engine is a basic tool to survive here for any Iconic or any exclusive type of car.

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Honda getting aggressive for India: New models, diesel variants in pipeline

Honda Siel is getting into aggressive mode. The company, after floundering comprehensively in one of the fastest growing markets in the world, is now planning to re-align its strategy so as to boost volumes, growth and profit. The company has production capacity lying idle in its Tapukara plant in Rajasthan which may well be utilized for export markets until the domestic market has enough pull to consume everything made locally.

In what may be termed as a rather optimistic projection, the company plans to sell 1 million units in the domestic market by 2015-2016. It would be an extremely tough ask, unless the Japanese car major throws in a bounty of diesel propelled cars at more than competitive prices. We know for a fact that the new 1.6 liter diesel engine will soon power the Honda City, and probably in the new Civic as well. The Brio diesel is also being tested currently. But doubling sales in a competitive market in three years still looks like an overly positive thought to us. Honda is also currently suffering from a sharp shortage of spares due to the tragedies faced by the company in its Thai and Japanese plants. The current customers who need spares aren

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Honda getting aggressive for India: New models' date=' diesel variants in pipeline
[/quote']

 

Looks like whatever loss they have incurred during Japan disaster, they want to now recover every penny of that with an aggressive attitude and planned lineup.

 

 

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All i would say is. Bring it on Honda!

PS: A Brio Diesel with a CVT or even a 4-sped Autobox would be iciing on the cake. ( Am I asking too mch?)

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The Brio diesel is being tested all out . I myself spotted the car in the Malad area of Mumbai few days ago trying to weave its way through traffic. The diesel clatter was very prominent. It would be very interesting to see what Honda prices the car like.

All i would say is. Bring it on Honda!

PS: A Brio Diesel with a CVT or even a 4-sped Autobox would be iciing on the cake. ( Am I asking too mch?)

What you have said here is the wish of many customers. But going by the norm of what the current market scene is, I dont think thats going to happen. But yes Im guessing the Brio petrol Automatic will be here around Diwali.

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All i would say is. Bring it on Honda!

PS: A Brio Diesel with a CVT or even a 4-sped Autobox would be iciing on the cake. ( Am I asking too mch?)

Asking for a automatic that to on a diesel Honda is asking too much because firstly they are newbie in the diesel segment and as many people will know when Honda is launched with a diesel it will outclass even Maruti in India so there won't be any room for A/T untill the demand of the M/T diesel is met .

Anyways again today spotted 3 brios red plates (UP registration) back to back running on Marine driven @ 3pm today . They were running slow may be milege tests or suspension tests . (Again could not click pics was driving alone) Nowadays there are too many new cars being tested in my area (with no car factories nearby) may be the launch of the diesel Brio is very near .

Also I don't think GM will give Honda the diesel engine because it will kill the BEAT and the Spark and with the upcoming Aveo sibling and the MUV they are already too busy to launch there newer cars . I think the Brio will be a 3 cylinder version of the 1.6lt diesel Honda is working on.

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